DI Bruce Robertson Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 What you need to look into is how the Provos split away and who was pulling their strings and why. That bit usually gets airbrushed out of BBC documentaries.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_Crisis Why & who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dindeleux Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 Will Andy (Ma auntie died) Goram wear a black armband? What's this about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Dindeleux said: What's this about? Andy Goram wore a black arm band while playing for Rangers after Billy Wright was murdered by the INLA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dindeleux Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 Andy Goram wore a black arm band while playing for Rangers after Billy Wright was murdered by the INLA. I have no recollection of this at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 4 minutes ago, Dindeleux said: I have no recollection of this at all. Obviously not paying enough attention to The Rangers/Ra Sellick Are Badder Than Us Forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booker-T Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 On 3/14/2017 at 15:29, WaffenThinMint said: Great idea. Then the south can say piss off at the ballot box & put an end to this urban myth for good. this would absolutely be the case in dublin but I don't think it would be clear cut overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paranoid android Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 So, a marmite figure, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 He was a product of his environment. He was responsible for some horrendous things and that should not be forgotten, but you also have to consider what he was reacting to. There are almost no good guys as far as Northern Ireland during the troubles goes. Just a pity they didn't get lucky in Brighton... Whatever he got up to in the earlier part of his life - and we'll probably never really know how much of a c**t he was - he has to be given credit for his work towards some kind of peace. I think he did well in that, given that many of his former colleagues would have posed a significant threat to his safety.Thatcher, on the other hand, never, ever stopped her ideological war against "the enemies within" and, imho, is responsible for more human suffering than either side in Ulster - although in fairness she had the whole UK as her battleground and many, many more weapons - overt and covert - at her disposal. And that bitch got a state funeral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadgerTheBadger Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudder Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 I hate all this, well I don't forgive him! And, he never apologised stuff. He was proud of what he done and he never asked anyone to forgive him. The bottom line is he was the Provo Godfather and without him and his ability to get almost all the hardliners to follow him and commit to the peace process, there would never be an agreement. And if people like Ian Paisley believed him and came to work closely with him that says it all. MM 2015 I was proud to be a member of the IRA,” he said in a 2015 TV interview. “I am still - 40 years on - proud that I was a member of the IRA. "I believed that in a situation where the community that I came from were being treated like second and third-class citizens that I had a responsibility to fight back against it. And I don't apologise to anybody for having done that. I think it was the right thing to do." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 2 hours ago, DrewDon said: This is an excellent article from Kevin Meagher: http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2017/03/21/martin-mcguinness-a-life-of-two-halves. Got to the end of that and thought, no way McGuinness was only 47 - must have had a hard life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 32 minutes ago, Mudder said: I hate all this, well I don't forgive him! And, he never apologised stuff. He was proud of what he done and he never asked anyone to forgive him. Given that involved mass murder, it should not be a surprise that a lot of people do not mourn his passing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudder Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said: Given that involved mass murder, it should not be a surprise that a lot of people do not mourn his passing. Obviously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnthebaptistist Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 5 hours ago, Ross. said: He was a product of his environment. He was responsible for some horrendous things and that should not be forgotten, but you also have to consider what he was reacting to. There are almost no good guys as far as Northern Ireland during the troubles goes. Just a pity they didn't get lucky in Brighton... He did get lucky for his 'cause' in quite a few towns and villages, he got even more lucky when the same westminster government that he tried to murder offered him protection for life. What luck did his many victims have ? He was never a product of his environment, not a lot of Irish Republicans killed other Irish Republicans for the ego rush that he got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrewDon Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 My hot take: It is legitimate to condemn and disagree with large elements of McGuinness' admittedly brutal past whilst both acknowledging and celebrating his reform as a powerful, unyielding advocate for peace, progress and pacification. There has been an unhelpful lack of nuance in many reactions today, especially on social media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 I hate all this, well I don't forgive him! And, he never apologised stuff. You need to argue with the guy that wrote this He was proud of what he done and he never asked anyone to forgive him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudder Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 Just now, topcat(The most tip top) said: You need to argue with the guy that wrote this I think you're misinterpreting that TC, that's my point , He never apologised and never would he was always proud of what he done in the IRA and he never asked for forgiveness because he believed what he done was right. so that's why I say, I don't get all this , well I don't forgive him, or he never apologised stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 I think you're misinterpreting that TC, that's my point , He never apologised and never would he was always proud of what he done in the IRA and he never asked for forgiveness because he believed what he done was right. so that's why I say, I don't get all this , well I don't forgive him, or he never apologised stuff? You said you hated it not that you didn't get it. It's hard not to read that as suggesting that you thought that not forgiving him was wrong.On rereading it seems you actually hate even the suggestion that their was anything to forgive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Nederlander Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 5Live just took a call from a guy in Glasgow who declared that MM was almost Mandela like ... then they followed it up with a call from Lord Tebbit declaring that he hoped MM would burn in Hell for all eternity. The IRA killed a friend of mine ... I preferred Lord Tebbit's call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 5Live just took a call from a guy in Glasgow who declared that MM was almost Mandela like ... then they followed it up with a call from Lord Tebbit declaring that he hoped MM would burn in Hell for all eternity. The IRA killed a friend of mine ... I preferred Lord Tebbit's call. Mandela killed people too remember...Clearly very different cases but there are also similarities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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