ROI teams in Challenge Cup next year?

[HibeeJibee]

It being Eire's highest-placed clubs not in CL or EL may be in case their champion or runner-up reached a groupstage like St Patricks and Dundalk have once each. Ended-up with fixture congestion in the autumn without another completion to fulfil. Sligo averaged 1,746 last season - Bray averaged 867.

Does this mean 6 clubs from other leagues will be entering directly at the Last 16, despite the fact that this season only TNS have won a tie this season? That would mean ever more actual SPFL members having to enter the competition even earlier and collectively fighting for only 10 places, without considering Highland & Lowland clubs and 'B' teams.

Already have a situation where some 10 SPFL members were entering 3 rounds before the invited clubs - twice as far away from the final.


Invited clubs should enter at the Last 32 - it's still on a weekend. Get rid of 'B' teams. Make it:

R1 - 10x SPFL1, 10x SPFL2, 6x Highland, 6x Lowland
R2 - 10x Championship, 6x invited
R3
QFs
SFs
Final

[Audaces Fortuna Juvat]

3 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

It being Eire's highest-placed clubs not in CL or EL may be in case their champion or runner-up reached a groupstage like St Patricks and Dundalk have once each. Ended-up with fixture congestion in the autumn without another completion to fulfil. Sligo averaged 1,746 last season - Bray averaged 867.

Does this mean 6 clubs from other leagues will be entering directly at the Last 16, despite the fact that this season only TNS have won a tie this season? That would mean ever more actual SPFL members having to enter the competition even earlier and collectively fighting for only 10 places, without considering Highland & Lowland clubs and 'B' teams.

Already have a situation where some 10 SPFL members were entering 3 rounds before the invited clubs - twice as far away from the final.


Invited clubs should enter at the Last 32 - it's still on a weekend. Get rid of 'B' teams. Make it:

R1 - 10x SPFL1, 10x SPFL2, 6x Highland, 6x Lowland
R2 - 10x Championship, 6x invited
R3
QFs
SFs
Final

It was Shamrock Rovers and Dundalk, and Rovers did it under the leadership of Sir Michael O'Neill.

[edinabear]

I don't think this is necessarily a bad idea. Shame it's not the 'bigger' Irish sides competing. Perhaps we are testing the water for more cross border competition between Scots, Irish, Welsh. The island of Ireland has a population of over 6 million. No reason why the game can not be successful across there with a bit of investment and promotion.

[Audaces Fortuna Juvat]

21 hours ago, edinabear said:

I don't think this is necessarily a bad idea. Shame it's not the 'bigger' Irish sides competing. Perhaps we are testing the water for more cross border competition between Scots, Irish, Welsh. The island of Ireland has a population of over 6 million. No reason why the game can not be successful across there with a bit of investment and promotion.

Sadly, we are up against many obstacles, even taking the island as a whole.

There is an ingrained bent towards supporting "bigger" sides, and thousands (literally) leave every week to go to Ibrox, Anfield, Old Trafford, Parkhead, and Stamford Bridge, among others. The all-singing, all-dancing, and much over-rated EPL dominates peoples lives so getting people to go and support their local sides is difficult, very difficult indeed and, while attendances in the IL are rising, it is nowhere near enough to support professionalism. Sky are to show a few IL games, starting tonight with Cliftonville v Glentoran, which would normally be an attractive fixture, but Cliftonville  are out of the running and Glentoran have their worst team in my living memory. Investment would be nice too, but I don't know where it is coming from.

There are huge areas of the country where GAA and rugby are king too, so while I wish I had the answers, I don't. All I know is that hundreds of people give selflessly of their time to keep clubs going.

[Bully Wee Villa]

They should have an all-Ireland League, playing in the Summer. Just fourteen teams so twenty-six games each. With the free weekends have a provincial competition, maybe just a league featuring Ulster, Leinster, Munster, etc. They go mad for the provinces over there.

[Audaces Fortuna Juvat]

11 hours ago, Bully Wee Villa said:

They should have an all-Ireland League, playing in the Summer. Just fourteen teams so twenty-six games each. With the free weekends have a provincial competition, maybe just a league featuring Ulster, Leinster, Munster, etc. They go mad for the provinces over there.

Perhaps in bigotball and rugby, but not in football. The idea of an all-Island league has so much against it, and I'm not so sure it would raise standards significantly. GAA has always been provincial, because it was based on a parish, then county, then province system. Rugby succeeds with this system because of huge sponsorship and the fact it has always been that way. Football has no history of this. Shamrock Rovers wouldn't want to give up two games against Bohemians for two against Crusaders. Ditto Linfield losing two Glens games for two against St Pats. Huge financial losses in both scenarios, and neither "replacement" game would appeal to corporate w@nkers or telly.

Hugely reduced travelling fans in the all island idea, European places diminished, the national teams at risk and increased travelling costs are just some of the points that spring to mind. I would support the idea of summer football though.

 

 

[Bully Wee Villa]

You don't need to reduce European places, run it as, say, two conferences of seven.. a Northern Irish one and a Free Irish one, they would still play each other twice so you could have an overall Champion but the individual tables would be used for the purpose of calculating the Europa places. Bottom from each conference relegated.

You'd still have the big derbies, as it's unlikely the likes of Linfield or St Pats would go down. And if they do, it just makes the second tier more interesting, like the presence of Hearts/Hibs/United has brought more attention on the Scottish Championship.

Don't buy the travelling fans idea, it's Ireland not Russia. Even travelling from Belfast to Cork would be less travelling than from London to Newcastle and I reckon trips to Dublin and Cork, etc, would be more appealing than playing every match within a half hour drive of Belfast.

Have an island wide League Cup and keep the separate FA Cups for Europa places.

[an86]

Will be avoiding this shambles again next season. Firstly, it's an attempt to soften people up on the "Colt" teams front in terms of getting them into the league. Secondly, there is absolutely nothing to gain from Welsh and Irish teams playing in the competition. At best, there's needless travelling and low interest. At worst there's a situation, which could happen this weekend, where a Welsh side actually makes the final, which would be an absolute brasser for a Scottish competition.

It may not have carried huge interest, but the format of the old competition wasn't really broken. You certainly wouldn't see bigger clubs subjected to this gimmicky shite. My position remains the same as last year. I hope we win every game we play in, but I certainly won't be in attendance to watch it. An absolute fucking farce designed by idiots. Zero consultation with punters, as per.

[Monkey Tennis]

Even leaving aside the fact that there's been a little dispute over ideas of nationhood on the island, I can't imagine either football association wishing to effectively vanish, taking its national team with it.

[Audaces Fortuna Juvat]

1 hour ago, Bully Wee Villa said:

You don't need to reduce European places, run it as, say, two conferences of seven.. a Northern Irish one and a Free Irish one, they would still play each other twice so you could have an overall Champion but the individual tables would be used for the purpose of calculating the Europa places. Bottom from each conference relegated.

You'd still have the big derbies, as it's unlikely the likes of Linfield or St Pats would go down. And if they do, it just makes the second tier more interesting, like the presence of Hearts/Hibs/United has brought more attention on the Scottish Championship.

Don't buy the travelling fans idea, it's Ireland not Russia. Even travelling from Belfast to Cork would be less travelling than from London to Newcastle and I reckon trips to Dublin and Cork, etc, would be more appealing than playing every match within a half hour drive of Belfast.

Have an island wide League Cup and keep the separate FA Cups for Europa places.

But St Pat's aren't one of the big sides mate. The only two really big derbies in Ireland are Linfield v Glentoran and Bohs v Rovers. At present the Glens and Bohs would likely miss out as they are very poor versions of the sides they used to be.

As for the bit I've highlighted - I'd love to give this a bash, but I just don't see UEFA buying it.

I take your point about distances travelled, and you are right, but you are comparing well supported sides like Newcastle and the big London clubs with IL sides. The best supported side in the whole of Ireland are Linfield, (based on last year's average attendances) and we are averaging about 2,400 this season. If we played Cork we would probably only take 500-600. That said, I'd doubt many clubs take that to Cork, but the Blues in Dublin wouldn't boost Dublin clubs' attendances, nor particularly would Rovers or any other Dublin club in Belfast. Derry might be the exception, but I feel the novelty would wear off after a while, and I could do without repeating the experience of watching Linfield in Londonderry. I'd love to pop down to Limerick with the Blues, (not for Kweeve, but because a longstanding and very good friend is a fan, and Limerick is a beautiful city), but we would be lucky to muster a few hundred. Limerick in Belfast would probably bring 70/80.

I'm all for anything that would give us bigger and more glamorous games, but the only time we top 10,000 is when we meet the Glens in a game that really matters, or the likes of last year's Irish Cup Final.

[Big Berk]

I like this inclusion of Welsh and NI teams, giving them a bit of welcome recognition while adding a lot of interest, and I think including ROI teams would enhance it more. If they really want to imnprove the image and prestige of this tournament and move it further away from the popular notion of it being "The Mickey Mouse Cup" stop including these premier youth teams.

[WILLIEA]

11 hours ago, Bully Wee Villa said:

Don't buy the travelling fans idea, it's Ireland not Russia. Even travelling from Belfast to Cork would be less travelling than from London to Newcastle and I reckon trips to Dublin and Cork, etc, would be more appealing than playing every match within a half hour drive of Belfast.
 

Don't know about? Unless they have massively improved the roads in ROI since I was last there ( about 10 years ago )

I reckon I could get from Glasgow to London faster than Belfast to Cork

[LongTimeLurker]

9 hours ago, Big Berk said:

I like this inclusion of Welsh and NI teams, giving them a bit of welcome recognition while adding a lot of interest, and I think including ROI teams would enhance it more. If they really want to imnprove the image and prestige of this tournament and move it further away from the popular notion of it being "The Mickey Mouse Cup" stop including these premier youth teams.

Don't see what the huge problem is from a prestige standpoint, if they are all getting knocked out in the early rounds before the non-Scottish teams and second tier clubs enter? Is the Scottish Cup devalued by having the likes of Newton Stewart and Golspie Sutherland in the early rounds? Beyond that I suspect some people in the RoI would see it as a bit of an insult to only be playing against Scotland's second tier, so I'll believe this LoI angle is happening when I see a link to a story about it on the RTE website.

[weirdcal]

Don't know about? Unless they have massively improved the roads in ROI since I was last there ( about 10 years ago )

I reckon I could get from Glasgow to London faster than Belfast to Cork

Belfast to cork is dual carriageway the entire way down. Apart from the tolls (€1.90) x3 and one in dublin its a pretty easy drive.

 

Its a better road than our own a9 and quieter too.

 

 

[WILLIEA]

1 minute ago, weirdcal said:

Belfast to cork is dual carriageway the entire way down. Apart from the tolls (€1.90) x3 and one in dublin its a pretty easy drive.

 

Its a better road than our own a9 and quieter too.

 

 

Didn't know that!

Last time I was touring in ROI it was like driving on SW Scotland backroads.

[weirdcal]

Didn't know that!
Last time I was touring in ROI it was like driving on SW Scotland backroads.

Not all are like that. They are doing limerick to galway in similar style currently up to gort and due to complete next year.
Galway to dublin is a motorway.

The local roads are still interesting. N roads usually 100kmph. R roads usually 80kmph and l roads are a joke

[Wilky1878]

I have fairly enjoyed this seasons challenge cup (minus the B teams, I still think that's a shambles) and Bala away is definitely up there for my favourite away day ever. Including ROI teams could enhance this but I don't think I like the sound of Linfield vs Derry City etc...

The reason the invited teams join at a later stage is because of midweek ties but I think the cup should be restructured to weekend ties if they're going to be in the cup and have them in from the start.

Village club dross like Alloa already enter the tournament every year champ.

[Big Berk]

2 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Don't see what the huge problem is from a prestige standpoint, if they are all getting knocked out in the early rounds before the non-Scottish teams and second tier clubs enter? Is the Scottish Cup devalued by having the likes of Newton Stewart and Golspie Sutherland in the early rounds? Beyond that I suspect some people in the RoI would see it as a bit of an insult to only be playing against Scotland's second tier, so I'll believe this LoI angle is happening when I see a link to a story about it on the RTE website.

I accept your point about  ROI sides maybe feeling insulted at being compared to our 2nd tier teams. Their bigger teams are stronger than the NI teams, but then again its not their euro qualifying teams either so theirs not going to be a big disparity with our championship sides. I dont agree with the non-league sides devaluing the Cup tho - the Cup isnt a league compatetition ans is for members of the SFA (and now the SJFA), and besides  thats what makes the Cup so interesting, which was my point about including teams outwith Scotland in the first place.

[jamamafegan]

I think it's great ROI sides will be competing in what is a dull competition. It throws up the possibility of some special away days for the fans. It is such a shame the colt teams are still involved though. If they got rid of them it would actually be a very decent, respectable competition. Just get the colts to f**k.

[AsimButtHitsASix]

Needs further expansion. Faroe Islands aint too far away. Bring two teams in from there. Have the 8 foreign teams come in at the last 16. B68 v Forfar? Great stuff.