Queen’s Park break 150 years of amateur tradition and now face HMRC crackdown

[Kingy95]

The grand amateurs of Scottish football could face an HMRC crackdown after handing out £1-a-week professional deals to players.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/queens-park-break-150-years-9465208

 

[WaffenThinMint]

Very worrying. I'm not sure they could afford any back pay claims resultant from this, never mind any current players they have.

[1320Lichtie]

Oooft.

Not good to hear at all.

[LongTimeLurker]

Junior clubs were warned about this issue a few years back from what i remember, so not sure why QP thought they could get away with this.

[Mon_The_Fife]

Why are Queens signing anyone on a professional contract anyway? Can't they just sign players on amateur contracts and continue with the 'expenses'? Or have I completely missed something?

[AllanM]

Maybe I haven't understood correctly but they sign them on professional contracts, not paying wages but paying expenses, but via a professional contract the players are tied in and can't simply walk away to another club? An amateur contract would mean they only have to give 28 days notice to leave?

The contract the players sign though is just a standard contract with no note of the £1 per hour wage so they don't see this. But the contract QP submit to the SFA has the £1 hourly wage on it so it's a professional contract.

Be interesting to see what the club say about this, if they even issue any comment.

Wonder if the players are disgruntled though as they knew they were playing for free? Only factor I can see is that they are tied in on the professional contract. Maybe I have missed the point though.

[AllanM]

Again maybe I have missed the point, by why has the SFA just noticed this now? Surely someone checks the contracts at their end to ensure all ties up?

[Only one David Marsh]

Hopefully this is fully investigated by the authorities and those responsible are brought to justice, there is no place for these draconian ways in modern living. 

[Mick1867]

Well this is embarrassing

OK, I'm aware we pay travel expenses.

I'm also aware there are currently 2 contract options that players can sign at our club - one for amateurs, and one for those that have played professionally

Would I be right in saying that the £1 a week contract is for the ex-pros and this is a nominal fee so the player doesn't have to revert to the amateur contract? Maybe I'm wrong, however I was always led to believe by the people that run our club that this contract stated £0.

So technically we are paying players a wage for playing, despite the whole ethos that the club is built on. It might be f**k all in comparison to other clubs but why have the supporters and the members (who elect the committee to run our club) not been told about this? I couldn't care less if we call ourselves amateur or professional, I support my local club.

The main concern is it looks like we have been breaking current wage law. If we have continued with these contracts without legal advice or consulting the relevant authorities then some folk need their jotters   

 

[Mick1867]

49 minutes ago, AllanM said:

Again maybe I have missed the point, by why has the SFA just noticed this now? Surely someone checks the contracts at their end to ensure all ties up?

I don't think we're breaking any football rules. 

[WhaleOilBeefHucked]

11 minutes ago, Mick1867 said:

I don't think we're breaking any football rules. 

At amateur or welfare level if a player who has signed a professional contract in the past wants to play at that level, it gets picked up when trying to add the details to the registration system.  They then have to complete a form available from the registrations department at the SFA to change the status from professional.  You would think a competent governing body could put a simple check into the system for one club so that every player is at the correct level since the rule is there already for the who of amateur and welfare football.

[Ronald Villiers]

1 hour ago, AllanM said:

Maybe I haven't understood correctly but they sign them on professional contracts, not paying wages but paying expenses, but via a professional contract the players are tied in and can't simply walk away to another club? An amateur contract would mean they only have to give 28 days notice to leave?

The contract the players sign though is just a standard contract with no note of the £1 per hour wage so they don't see this. But the contract QP submit to the SFA has the £1 hourly wage on it so it's a professional contract.

Be interesting to see what the club say about this, if they even issue any comment.

Wonder if the players are disgruntled though as they knew they were playing for free? Only factor I can see is that they are tied in on the professional contract. Maybe I have missed the point though.

Surely the fact that the player signs one contract but something different is submitted to the SFA renders the players registration invalid, also fraudulent as the player should be signing what has been submitted to the SFA. So are the QP players registered or not, would be interesting to know, I know of one player who never signed anything with QP until the second week in July yet he was registered with the SFA in June, very strange!

[AllanM]

Mick, I agree, very embarrassing!

Re contracts signed by players and those submitted, I was just taking that from what I read in the article. Trying to understand it all.

[Bring Your Own Socks]

Completely bogus story. All our contracts are signed in ink with a quill. 

[haufdaft]

I'd guess that the reason the players are paid £1 is so that Queens park can get transfer fees. I doubt that it's truly done for the convenience of players.

"Amateurs" when it comes to paying wages but professionals when selling for larger fees.

Let's hope they also investigate the "expenses"

[Bring Your Own Socks]

29 minutes ago, Ronald Villiers said:

Surely the fact that the player signs one contract but something different is submitted to the SFA renders the players registration invalid, also fraudulent as the player should be signing what has been submitted to the SFA. So are the QP players registered or not, would be interesting to know, I know of one player who never signed anything with QP until the second week in July yet he was registered with the SFA in June, very strange!

Your citing the SFA but the contract in the press piece is SPFL. If you must spread gossip (it's the Daily Record FFS) try and get some facts correct. Did you read down to the statement from the QP General Manager? Howzabout this for a headline; SPFL mandarins create scandal to scupper amateur team's promotion hopes!

Players come to QP not for the money but to enjoy the Hampden Experience and promote their career. Most of them can read (!) and decide whether or not their 'pay' is appropriate for what they do. Guys like Fraser Wishart need to have a think about the players and what they want. In justifying his own wretched career he's opened a can of worms that could deny young players a future in the game. If he's the players rep he needs to be looking at the players rather than locking horns with authorities. Another self-important p***k trying to prove he's bigger than the game itself.

One things for sure. If this has been a genuine oversight then the club will deal with it with dignity and respect and any issues will be resolved. We really don't do walking away.

[Ronald Villiers]

2 minutes ago, Bring Your Own Socks said:

Your citing the SFA but the contract in the press piece is SPFL. If you must spread gossip (it's the Daily Record FFS) try and get some facts correct. Did you read down to the statement from the QP General Manager? Howzabout this for a headline; SPFL mandarins create scandal to scupper amateur team's promotion hopes!

Players come to QP not for the money but to enjoy the Hampden Experience and promote their career. Most of them can read (!) and decide whether or not their 'pay' is appropriate for what they do. Guys like Fraser Wishart need to have a think about the players and what they want. In justifying his own wretched career he's opened a can of worms that could deny young players a future in the game. If he's the players rep he needs to be looking at the players rather than locking horns with authorities. Another self-important p***k trying to prove he's bigger than the game itself.

One things for sure. If this has been a genuine oversight then the club will deal with it with dignity and respect and any issues will be resolved. We really don't do walking away.

Of course I am citing the SFA, as all players are registered with the SFA as well as the SPFL.

There is no such thing as a Queens Park amateur team for the SPFL to "scupper" their promotion hopes, fact is that the players are signed as professionals so they can't leave when they choose and so QP can benefit from transfer fees where applicable, Queens Park being amateur is a myth!

[AllanM]

Ronald, see that was my take of it - the players know they are playing for free and accept this when they sign up BUT the club have got them tied into a one year professional contract but as an amateur club signing an amateur contract should mean they can walk away when they choose but they can't.

Find it hard to believe it is a genuine oversight. If so, need to have think whether those people at the club should be doing the job they are.

 

[Bully Wee Villa]

Hopefully this is fully investigated by the authorities and those responsible are brought to justice, there is no place for these draconian ways in modern living. 

Agreed. They should be demoted and the unfortunate playoff runners-up promoted in their place.

[Bring Your Own Socks]

10 minutes ago, AllanM said:

Find it hard to believe it is a genuine oversight. If so, need to have think whether those people at the club should be doing the job they are.

 

How many full-time clubs with admin staff etc have got themselves in a financial pickle in the last 10-15 years? Like all smaller clubs, our staff will have a mix of skills and no doubt some gaps in the overall capability. So making a mistake is always possible and likely given the structure. 

i trust when the witch-hunt is over you'll step forward and assume a role on the Committee to show them how it's done? Be careful what you wish for. And by the way, all the facts haven't been made available yet. I'm sure the Committee will present their views in due course. Then people can judge.

Talk about a slow news day. I take it Rangers don't have a game this weekend. Daily Ragarse. Tomorrow's chip wrapper.