Malky Mackay

[Malcolm Malcolm]

19 minutes ago, williemillersmoustache said:

I know. It's similar to the Farage thing, that because he worked in the city he's some kind of self-made, risen from the gutter, rags to riches fucking business wizard.

As opposed to a buffoonish private schoolboy and a total hypocrite with contacts in the City and a German wife.

Anyway, terrible appointment and Warburton is a twat.

Edited December 15, 2016 by Malcolm Malcolm

[forameus]

My whole dislike of Warburton is based around him being an ex-trader.  I've worked with plenty of them, and most of them are absolute dicks.  The fetishising of it is odd though - not so long ago they were the hate figures.  Or is it just that he's not one now, so it's ok to like him?  On that subject, Mackay wasn't really a banker, was he?  He worked as a teller in a bank as a part-time job.  It's hardly Wall Street.

On Mackay, I've seen people worried that because of what he's said in the past, that he'll somehow refuse to give chances to anyone who isn't a Caucasian male.  Think that's going a bit far.  Ron Atkinson is pretty well known for saying some pretty terrible things, but wasn't he one of the first managers to give a number of black players a chance at West Brom when there was still some pretty hateful racism coming from the stands?  Not that that makes what he said right, but there's shades of grey between someone who has never spoken a single racist comment and a KKK Grand Master.

[Gordopolis]

12 minutes ago, Pull My Strings said:

(i) No excuses, just bad luck.

(ii) Speak for yourself. If some goon was feeding me racist, sexist homophobic bullshit I'd tell him where to go. I certainly wouldn't join in. Granted, I'm fortunate enough not to be a racist, sexist, homophobic idiot. 

(iii) More bad luck.

(iv) Unfortunately for Malky he'd been sending screeds of offensive material on his work phone. Will the bad luck never end?

Agreed. But would you be happy to publish your text/chat/email history and let someone who is out to ruin you pick out what they want and frame it as they see fit?

Anyway, the righteous outrage is already getting a bit tiresome - the last Scotland game I was at, every single fucker around me was howling vile abuse at the Lithuania players (abuse that clearly ticked the racist, homophobic boxes). So I'd wager that there are a fair few of the outraged who are conveniently forgetting the odd dodgy 'ironic' joke they laughed at guiltily or the vitriol they once screamed at an opposition player.

All-in-all, Mackay is a meh appointment football-wise, and an unnecessary risk PR-wise... yet he's who we've got and he has clearly tried to show he is contrite about the whole thing. Going on a course about diversity doesn't change whether or not he's a racist (a false dichotomy if ever there was one) but it does show that he's willing to face up to his failings and, one can only hope, begin to change his ways.

[Pull My Strings]

10 minutes ago, forameus said:

My whole dislike of Warburton is based around him being an ex-trader.  I've worked with plenty of them, and most of them are absolute dicks.  The fetishising of it is odd though - not so long ago they were the hate figures.  Or is it just that he's not one now, so it's ok to like him?  On that subject, Mackay wasn't really a banker, was he?  He worked as a teller in a bank as a part-time job.  It's hardly Wall Street.

On Mackay, I've seen people worried that because of what he's said in the past, that he'll somehow refuse to give chances to anyone who isn't a Caucasian male.  Think that's going a bit far.  Ron Atkinson is pretty well known for saying some pretty terrible things, but wasn't he one of the first managers to give a number of black players a chance at West Brom when there was still some pretty hateful racism coming from the stands?  Not that that makes what he said right, but there's shades of grey between someone who has never spoken a single racist comment and a KKK Grand Master.

I don't think the concern is that he will actively discriminate necessarily but that the message it sends out is damaging. Senior roles in public bodies should not be given to notorious bigots because it undermines the message that the organisation is inclusive and tolerant. That's an even more important consideration when it comes to a development role which, at least in part, should be about increasing accessibility and inclusivity.

 

[Peppino Impastato]

Exactly,  the sfa can't seriously take part in these show racism the red card things in future as they just gave the top job in Scottish football to a proven massive racist.   And he only showed contrition cause he got caught and has a mortgage to pay.

[forameus]

4 minutes ago, Pull My Strings said:

I don't think the concern is that he will actively discriminate necessarily but that the message it sends out is damaging. Senior roles in public bodies should not be given to notorious bigots because it undermines the message that the organisation is inclusive and tolerant. That's an even more important consideration when it comes to a development role which, at least in part, should be about increasing accessibility and inclusivity.

 

Yeah. that's fair enough.  It's easy to see just in this thread alone that some aren't going to forget about what he did - not that they necessarily should, mind - and imagine it'll only get more toxic amongst the less balanced.  I just don't think that saying a few things like he did makes him "a notorious bigot".  He very well could be,behind the scenes, blacking up to go to parties with his racist friends.  Or he could be someone incredibly thick who did something incredibly thick thinking that he was speaking privately.  It's the black and white (no pun intended) nature of today's world though, where he can either be not racist or tremendously so with no room in between.

[Pull My Strings]

1 minute ago, Gordopolis said:

Agreed. But would you be happy to publish your text/chat/email history and let someone who is out to ruin you pick out what they want and frame it as they see fit?

 

I'd have nothing to fear in terms of being exposed as a vile misanthrope if that's what you're getting at.

[Gordopolis]

2 minutes ago, Pull My Strings said:

I'd have nothing to fear in terms of being exposed as a vile misanthrope if that's what you're getting at.

Just saying that despite the cringeworthy content of Mackay's texts, he is absolutely at a disadvantage that his critics are not. 

[Gordopolis]

13 minutes ago, Pull My Strings said:

I don't think the concern is that he will actively discriminate necessarily but that the message it sends out is damaging. Senior roles in public bodies should not be given to notorious bigots because it undermines the message that the organisation is inclusive and tolerant. That's an even more important consideration when it comes to a development role which, at least in part, should be about increasing accessibility and inclusivity.

 

I think that's the distinction to be made: the man vs the message. I personally feel Mackay has been vilified more than enough for his behaviour, but plopping him in at the head of the SFA development scheme feels like something of an OTT redemption measure and is perfectly teed up to backfire.

[Pull My Strings]

5 minutes ago, forameus said:

Yeah. that's fair enough.  It's easy to see just in this thread alone that some aren't going to forget about what he did - not that they necessarily should, mind - and imagine it'll only get more toxic amongst the less balanced.  I just don't think that saying a few things like he did makes him "a notorious bigot".  He very well could be,behind the scenes, blacking up to go to parties with his racist friends.  Or he could be someone incredibly thick who did something incredibly thick thinking that he was speaking privately.  It's the black and white (no pun intended) nature of today's world though, where he can either be not racist or tremendously so with no room in between.

Can we agree that he's notorious? That just leaves the question as to whether the comments he made show him to be a bigot. My understanding is that there were extremely offensive, abusive and derogatory comments made about gays, blacks, jews and chinese (I haven't read all the comments so apologies to any minority group which I may have missed). These weren't 'near the knuckle' or 'edgy' but flat-out hateful. If that doesn't qualify him as a bigot then I'd say you're setting a rather high bar for the term. 

[geddyalexneil]

Well the SFA once again show themselves up for what they are. 2 faced hypocritical wankers. It seems that their stand against racist, sexist, homophobic language chanting etc is 100% a sham. We have fans banned for those actions. No quarter given. These views and actions have no place in Scottish football they say! Quite right No truck with this sad pathetic ignorant shite (same as all the sectarian garbage). Yet we have a convicted racist playing for Celtic and Scotland in Griffiths! Remember he was "caught up in the moment, not thinking, not had a great upbringing, not the brightest and we can't stop him doing the only job he really knows".... somethings which are probably true of arses in the crowd. The whole job thing was and is a farce. If a stupid or ignorant supporter is caught and charged in other walks of life they will often be fired. Why should someone in football be any different? Now the SFA appoint a scummy racist sexist arsehole to an important position in Scottish football. The people running our game are actually WORSE than any ned in the stands. They p/ick and choose when it is ok to be racist, homophobic and sexist. If it might benefit Scotland then it seems all can be forgiven. But hey who will miss a supporter or 2? .I actually find it hard to support my own country due to this lot who run the game and having a racist (albeit talented) scumbag up front (well if he gets a game...).

My love or pride in my own national side has waned even more by this appointment.

SFA 2 faced racist, homophobic sexist scumbags!

[Pull My Strings]

11 minutes ago, Gordopolis said:

Just saying that despite the cringeworthy content of Mackay's texts, he is absolutely at a disadvantage that his critics are not. 

That sounds an awful lot like relativism. Anyway, I don't live in a glass house so it doesn't apply to me.  

10 minutes ago, Gordopolis said:

I think that's the distinction to be made: the man vs the message. I personally feel Mackay has been vilified more than enough for his behaviour, but plopping him in at the head of the SFA development scheme feels like something of an OTT redemption measure and is perfectly teed up to backfire.

I think Malky probably needs to start his road to redemption somewhere a bit less salubrious if that's what this is about. You're right about the man v the message. It's the message which is the problem. I couldn't give two fucks about Mackay personally.

[dogmc]

Even aside from how vile the messages were.....He used a work phone for them. It's a staggering level of stupidity alongside the bigotry which makes appointing him to arguably the most important role in scottish football jaw droppingly astonishing.

[afca32]

What a fucking minter.

[Malcolm Malcolm]

3 hours ago, Pull My Strings said:

Can we agree that he's notorious? That just leaves the question as to whether the comments he made show him to be a bigot. My understanding is that there were extremely offensive, abusive and derogatory comments made about gays, blacks, jews and chinese (I haven't read all the comments so apologies to any minority group which I may have missed). These weren't 'near the knuckle' or 'edgy' but flat-out hateful. If that doesn't qualify him as a bigot then I'd say you're setting a rather high bar for the term. 

This is exactly the problem

[HibeeJibee]

3 hours ago, Pull My Strings said:

That just leaves the question as to whether the comments he made show him to be a bigot. My understanding is that there were extremely offensive, abusive and derogatory comments made about gays, blacks, jews and chinese (I haven't read all the comments so apologies to any minority group which I may have missed). 

Women, albeit not a minority tbf.

If he slagged the disabled and OAPs, he'd have the set.

[Newbornbairn]

Quote

Malky Mackay has urged critics to "judge me by my actions" after being appointed as the Scottish FA's new performance director.

You have been son, you have been.

No club in the country will touch you so you've crawled up the arse of possibly the most incompetent football employer anyone could find. 

[D.A.F.C]

SFA, equality. Supporting bigotry, racism and sexism.

Terrible appointment, even if he has learned his lesson it still creates future friction and leaving the door open for potential greviences from employees. Any minority will be thinking that the reason they didn't make it was down to him plus any minority who can't accept a fair decision could just play the racism/homophobic/sexism card knowing they have him on the back foot already.

"pick me or I'll go to the papers" etc

 

The SFA are utter fuckwits.

 

[D.A.F.C]

Also anyone stupid enough to text or email actual racist material must be ten times more ignorant/arrogant in everyday life.

I suspect he's 100% guilty and is only sorry he got caught.

[archie guevara]

If this affair has proved anything, it's that the SFA simply don't care what the football community in Scotland think about what they do. Time after time, they either do the unthinkable or at least attempt it. The only time that the fans managed to get them to change direction was over Rangers (who can forget Regan's "civil unrest" statement?), but even that was down to pressure on individual club chairmen and not the blazers.

So the question is, how can the fans stop being angry and start getting even, without affecting Scottish football as a whole?  I genuinely haven't a clue, but any suggestions would be welcome, short of breaking the law.