Juniors in the big Scottish do we deserve to be there?

[Burnie_man]

Honestly, I think I'll trust our board and supporters representative, who in the last 10 years has eradicated our debt and helped the club climb to where we are now over a junior fan from the internet who knows nothing about our budgetary make up.

Lol, I wouldn't expect anything else, but it doesn't alter the fact.

[CityDave]

1 hour ago, Burnie_man said:

 

You didn't really answer the question. If we have a Pyramid in Scotland, then how do Banks O'Dee access it? They have a full SFA Licence.

The fact is, there is no Pyramid in the north of Scotland, the HL is a closed shop but the SFA appear to be unwilling to do anything about it despite their President being in charge at a HL club.

On your other point, the Juniors should be equal partners with HL/LL clubs when it comes to the Pyramid, but that is another debate.

Was the HL a closed shop for the three Junior teams that joined ten years ago or for clubs such as Inverurie Locos, Cove Rangers, Wick Academy, Fort William?

The league committees are meant to be democratic so why would one club's president have more power in this sense than the others? I asked earlier how do you know Banks O' Dee are still wanting to go up?

If so then same might be said for some of the top Juniors in the other regions. Now is the system for entry that leads to the LL a closed shop? Surely any club that wishes to join the LL from the Juniors can??

What would be the point in Junior clubs going to all that trouble to gain licenses, but yet appear reluctant to take that step into the LL.

My point is and this includes the HL is that it comes down to the responsibility of the club itself not the SFA. Clubs are responsible on how they are run and responsible for running their own leagues, its got little to do with the SFA. I'm sure they make a fine scapegoat and I've seen a lot of this when it comes to football fans, they don't seem to recognise that their club or other clubs who hold power within league setups are the ones you should be speaking to. No point in bleating about the SFA, they are not in charge of the leagues, they are quite happy to allow the member clubs to decide how their league should be run and if the HL members voted against splitting the league into two and not having relegation at the basement then that is up to them, blame them. If you don't agree with your club, then speak to them, I'm sure they will be happy to listen to a supporters view, it can help.

Its understood that the HL do not want an odd number of clubs in the league, so if one of the clubs go up into League 2 with a club coming down into the LL, this might provide a space for a club which is ready for the step up to the HL. It would still be an odd number if Montrose come down and the HL champions fail in the playoffs as well.

 

 

 

[Burnie_man]

Of course it’s a closed shop, in so far as you can only join if another club leaves or the league expands to allow more clubs, which is how the Scottish Football League operated.

 

Tuffiff, Strathspey and Formartine wouldn’t have been in the HL otherwise as there was no route for them to play their way in, just like Banks O’Dee who for some reason were refused at the same time.  BoD are licenced and now also play in Aberdeenshire senior competitions so I’d be very surprised if they had decided not to bother with the HL. Not that they can do anything about it at the moment  as the door is closed.

 

The LL is obviously more open given you can join the EoSFL or the SoSFL and play your way in. You cannot do that in the HL.

 

The responsibility for the mess lies squarely at the feet of Regan and the SFA, who like to trumpet the Pyramid as an achievement whereas it’s nothing of the sort.

[cloughy]

Bonnyrigg Rose answered that last night

[BinoBalls]

Yes the juniors should be in. They add colour and diversity in an age when most teams are fed up playing against the same opponents 4 times a season. They can spring an occasional upset, it's all good tbh. I would actually let more of them in. 

FWIW I can understand why they're reluctant to join the pyramid, clearly most believe their clubs would be worse off, they prefer to be a big fish in a small pond and it's not up to the rest of us to force them to do something against their will. 

If, say, Talbot joined league 2. Their admission prices would be up to £10; they wouldn't win anywhere near as many games; they enjoy great support just now but, without the derbies and the league titles, their attendances would level off and once the initial honeymoon period was done they'd be yet-another lower league club yo-yoing about the bottom divisions like Peterhead, probably settling in League 2 without the glory many of their fans crave. 

Yes it's not "right" the juniors can dip into the big Scottish cup and get a money spinning tie, but it's not really that much worse than my own club doing the same.

[CityDave]

31 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Of course it’s a closed shop, in so far as you can only join if another club leaves or the league expands to allow more clubs, which is how the Scottish Football League operated.

 

Tuffiff, Strathspey and Formartine wouldn’t have been in the HL otherwise as there was no route for them to play their way in, just like Banks O’Dee who for some reason were refused at the same time.  BoD are licenced and now also play in Aberdeenshire senior competitions so I’d be very surprised if they had decided not to bother with the HL. Not that they can do anything about it at the moment  as the door is closed.

 

The LL is obviously more open given you can join the EoSFL or the SoSFL and play your way in. You cannot do that in the HL.

 

The responsibility for the mess lies squarely at the feet of Regan and the SFA, who like to trumpet the Pyramid as an achievement whereas it’s nothing of the sort.

When were Banks O'Dee refused entry into the HL? There were 3 places available and they were not preferred and so missed out. How could they be refused if there was no place for them?

Why is this the SFA's fault? Its got little to do with them on how the HL is run. The SFA set the criteria for entry, the SJFA have their own criteria, as I said before they are under the same roof so should talk to each other on a regular basis. But I just think this blame the SFA on what is quite clearly a league matter is a deflection away by fans and certain club members from the responsibility the clubs have to managing their own leagues. Regan can trumpet the pyramid all he wants, the bottom line is its up to the member clubs to decide what happens and its not a proper pyramid unless there are a lot more clubs on board.

Why complain about closed shops when many Junior clubs have no intent on progressing further than their current set up, this includes the North Juniors where there is a huge quality gap between the amateurs in those leagues and the semi pros that make up the HL and there just isn't enough clubs that could be HL quality in the Juniors unless the East Juniors from north of the Tay take more interest?. I gave Montrose Roselea as an example of a club who have taken advantage of the new regionalisation, now if they succeed in the next few years, why can't others? A good question would be what would potential new HL members such as Bank O'Dee, Culter, Lochee Utd, Arbroath Vics, Forfar Albion or Carnoustie Panmure bring to the league?

I would like to see the Juniors be part of a national set up, but its quite clear many are reluctant and their supporters point the fingers at others as if its some conspiracy instead of looking at their own club and why their club committee don't want to get involved. That's fine by me, its their choice, but I find the deflective blame game finger pointing by certain fans at the SFA, SPFL, HL and LL a bit hypocritical. Also where some fans pander the idea of forcing Junior clubs to join the set up just as bad.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[cmontheloknow]

2 hours ago, DOA said:

Having already seen Morton they aren't a non entity.Was Quitongo playing?.If teams want to play in the junior cup they should turn senior and play on a level playing field regarding admission prices and other overheads. Having watched juniors for the last umpteen years and now watching senior football there is no comparison.Senior football provides a much better spectacle.

 

 

So what about say Newton Stewart? They charge less than Pollok, have lower overheads as they don't pay wages and play at a 3G cage.

DOA sums up your post matey.

[Talbot Bing]

Exactly . 

I concur.[emoji106]

I feel the love[emoji174]

[Dr V]

3 hours ago, DOA said:

Having already seen Morton they aren't a non entity.Was Quitongo playing?.If teams want to play in the junior cup they should turn senior and play on a level playing field regarding admission prices and other overheads. Having watched juniors for the last umpteen years and now watching senior football there is no comparison.Senior football provides a much better spectacle.

 

 

It is all about opinions I have watched juniors for most of my life but I have taken in many local senior games due to family involvement and believe me watching Stenhousemuir in a soulless stadium with a very small fan base is not inspiring stuff and not a patch on watching competitive junior super league football. But each to their own

[newcastle broon]

3 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

 

You didn't really answer the question. If we have a Pyramid in Scotland, then how do Banks O'Dee access it? They have a full SFA Licence.

The fact is, there is no Pyramid in the north of Scotland, the HL is a closed shop but the SFA appear to be unwilling to do anything about it despite their President being in charge at a HL club.

On your other point, the Juniors should be equal partners with HL/LL clubs when it comes to the Pyramid, but that is another debate.

 

I'd say he's made a very good point regarding Roselea.  

[newcastle broon]

2 hours ago, LeeKRR1878 said:

 

Sorry what? That doesn't quite make sense (bearing in mind I'm running on 3 hours sleep). Why should they turn senior to play in the junior cup? The admission prices would open up the next can of worms. The Juniors are good value for money with a £6 entry fee. Good game then you have got more than your money's worth, shite game then what is £6 but a couple of pints? If going by what some senior fans posters think then increasing entry to say £15 roughly? (Not sure of the exact prices) then less people may go and watch. Which in turn could cripple a junior team financially. Obviously if a pyramid system opened up and the team made it high up the pyramid then you could get away with the increase

 

Not sure about your point most LL clubs charge £6  ? 

Obviously going up the leagues the further you go the more it costs  ? 

[JakeSAFC]

It is all about opinions I have watched juniors for most of my life but I have taken in many local senior games due to family involvement and believe me watching Stenhousemuir in a soulless stadium with a very small fan base is not inspiring stuff and not a patch on watching competitive junior super league football. But each to their own

Stenny probably isnt the best example, they know their grounds shite. But you cant say the standard in the junior cup is better than at Stenny, considering they're a League 1 side.

[Burnie_man]

11 minutes ago, newcastle broon said:

I'd say he's made a very good point regarding Roselea.  

Montrose Roselea moved for financial considerations, ie less travelling (although they ended up in the west division bizzarely) and a lot of their players came from the Aberdeen area. It was a sensible move for them, and they considered it an easier pathway to playing Superleague football for a club of their size than in the East Region where they would perhaps struggle to get promotion from the Premier.

I doubt the HL figured highly in their thoughts,

[LeeKRR1878]

Not sure about your point most LL clubs charge £6  ? 

Obviously going up the leagues the further you go the more it costs  ? 

Well then it would seem there already is a level playing field regarding admission costs

[cowdenbeath]

On 12/6/2016 at 11:54, The Moonster said:

That's obviously not ideal and I would always say that long travels should be scheduled for a Saturday but again, you are finding the smallest and a quite rare problem with senior football and using it as a reason not to join.

Stranraer's games at Peterhead were moved because of Peterhead being in the Challenge Cup semi final then the final. If Peterhead hadn't done so well in the cup the games would have been on the Saturday's.

Just a bit of bad luck for Stranraer and not something which happens all the time.

[fan of the juniors]

Stranraer's games at Peterhead were moved because of Peterhead being in the Challenge Cup semi final then the final. If Peterhead hadn't done so well in the cup the games would have been on the Saturday's.

Just a bit of bad luck for Stranraer and not something which happens all the time.

Even at a higher level it happen. Slightly lesser distance but Killie going to Aberdeen last night was another farcical decision

[LeeKRR1878]

Thought I would post this clip of ex Talbot striker David Gormley scoring 2 great goals against Arbroath.
Ex junior in the big Scottish.

Went to Talbot from the Roy. Great striker

[Talbot Bing]

Thought I would post this clip of ex Talbot striker David Gormley scoring 2 great goals against Arbroath.
Ex junior in the big Scottish.

Lichtie seen this?

[fan of the juniors]

Just puttin this up as that fucken meme was doin ma tits

[KarlMarx]

13 hours ago, fan of the juniors said:

Even at a higher level it happen. Slightly lesser distance but Killie going to Aberdeen last night was another farcical decision

Or Inverness going to Ibrox on Christmas Eve.

Fans are certainly an afterthought at that level.