Rossvale Juniors future

[LeeKRR1878]

Figures are wrong again..........

I'll apologise I don't know where I got £5m from. £3.5m is what it is

[Burnie_man]

11 hours ago, LeeKRR1878 said:

 

 

Yeah I hear what your saying. I agree too I think they've dived in too quick with not enough planning going in to moving into the juniors. It may just not be an interest of the locals in the Briggs to watch them, which is a shame. That's one way to raise the funds but is it fair to ask kids for extra money to sustain a junior team that, let's be honest, less than half of them will get to play for eventually anyway?

 

Which would be a very good return if half the Junior team was made-up of players who came through their system. Surely the point here is that they want a Junior side as the "top of the tree" of their youth system, similar to Cumbernauld Colts in the Lowland League, and many other Junior clubs eg Gartcairn.

It does seem that they jumped in long before any plans were in place for a Junior compliant home in Bishopbriggs, but now that there is the opportunity hopefully they can resolve the issues and move home.

[garrellburn]

£10 million might be nearer the final bill once it's finished. Have you ever heard of a council project that actually cost what was originally projected.

East Dunbartonshire have a track record here, back int the 90's the old Kirky swimming pool was to be renovated with new changing facilities. A gym and leisure suite downstairs, etc. Plans went up in the reception area.

Meanwhile the Leisuredrome in Bishopbriggs which was built about 15 years after the Kirky pool was undergoing an extensive upgrade ended up at more than double the original budget. The money for the Kirkintilloch pool upgrade was spent. It was getting quite run down in appearance but was still a great facility with a deep pool ideal for the sub aqua club of which I was a member.The plans were taken down and put away in the boiler room.

It was losing customers though and in 1997 it was closed "until further notice" and its loyal users told to go to Bishopbriggs or Milngavie. About a year later the demolition crew moived in and both the pool and the adjacent leisure hall were gone.

It was twelve years before they were eventually replaced, and although the new leisure centre is a superb facility it could have been delivered very much cheaper and the Caurnie folk could have had the use of a local pool and and leisure centre during that time.

I remain to be convinced that the new park will be ready before 2020 at the earliest.

[LeeKRR1878]

Which would be a very good return if half the Junior team was made-up of players who came through their system. Surely the point here is that they want a Junior side as the "top of the tree" of their youth system, similar to Cumbernauld Colts in the Lowland League, and many other Junior clubs eg Gartcairn.

It does seem that they jumped in long before any plans were in place for a Junior compliant home in Bishopbriggs, but now that there is the opportunity hopefully they can resolve the issues and move home.

Oh yeah don't get me wrong absolutely that's what I think the club would aim to do, but at the same time in some younger age groups there are 2 and I'm rare cases 3 teams from the same club at the same age group that's why I'm saying less than half won't play for the juniors.

I think there should have been more thought and planning going into it before they went junior

[glensmad]

I wonder if it would have made a difference if Rossvale had been promoted to the Super Leagues at the end of last season, as seemed likely at this time last year.

[drs]

42 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Which would be a very good return if half the Junior team was made-up of players who came through their system. Surely the point here is that they want a Junior side as the "top of the tree" of their youth system, similar to Cumbernauld Colts in the Lowland League, and many other Junior clubs eg Gartcairn

How many Gartcairn players who are in their squad this season came through the Gartcairn system? And if the ground at Gartcairn is Junior Compliant then it shouldn't really be an issue to get a new build in Bishopbriggs up to scratch - who knows they may even put the toilets within half a mile of the ground

When Rossvale first came into the Juniors they were made up AFAIK from players from their various other teams, as you say it was the top of the tree but after a couple of years of not doing much they decided to get Lauchlan in and rip up the ethos of being the pinnacle. It would be interesting to see what % of Rossvale players in their first Junior season were signed from other Rossvale teams such as the AMs and U-21s and what the corresponding figure is now.

[Gunner]

I took over the amateurs at the beginning of this season. I don't think there will have been any player gone from the amateur side to the juniors - before I've taken over anyway. The Ammy team wasn't very well run previously, but I think we're now set up to really progress and I can see one or two of our players have the potential to move up to the juniors in time.

What I've noticed, is that prior to joining the club I expected all the teams to have a close working relationship - with a view on developing players and providing a pathway. However, there's been almost no dialogue between us and the 21's or us and the juniors. Now this is something I will improve in time, as my main focus is getting the amateurs going in the right direction. 

So, my point from all of this is that I agree that I think it might have been too soon for a semi-pro club in the briggs. I don't think the club structure was in place to achieve it. There's no player progression (yet) and I think sensibly establishing a successful amateur side would have been the right thing first. However, I don't see these factors being a decision in the problem with the council and the park tbh. 

 

My loose understanding is that the council view this complex as not a complex just for Rossvale to use, but for all of the community across a full range of sports. 

[Gunner]

And on the note of crowds.. Bishopbriggs must be one of the most dense area's for youth teams for its size. The area and surrounding areas has LOADS of boys clubs. From Rossvale to West Park. The majority of people in the briggs who support a local side are (rightly) investing their time and support in their own kids team. Might sound daft, but when you look at the size of the briggs - is there enough people to get support for the junior side? How many parents will go watch/support their kids team and then go watch the junior side? Not too many IMO. 

 

It takes an awful long time to build a following, clubs need to be part of a community, something people identity with and are proud of. Many of the well supported junior (and amateur) sides have been doing the community ground work for yyyyyeaaaaars and benefit from it. 

[Burnie_man]

1 hour ago, drs said:

How many Gartcairn players who are in their squad this season came through the Gartcairn system? And if the ground at Gartcairn is Junior Compliant then it shouldn't really be an issue to get a new build in Bishopbriggs up to scratch - who knows they may even put the toilets within half a mile of the ground

When Rossvale first came into the Juniors they were made up AFAIK from players from their various other teams, as you say it was the top of the tree but after a couple of years of not doing much they decided to get Lauchlan in and rip up the ethos of being the pinnacle. It would be interesting to see what % of Rossvale players in their first Junior season were signed from other Rossvale teams such as the AMs and U-21s and what the corresponding figure is now.

My point is, if a club like Gartcairn or Rossvale have 3 or 4 players in their squad who have come from the U21/U19/Amateur sides then that is very healthy. You will get nowhere close to having a majority of the squad coming through the youth system, it's just not going to happen. It rarely happens at senior level either. However, the opportunity is there which is the important thing.

From the pics I've seen of Gartcairn, I'm surprised that the ground is Junior compliant although to be fair additional work may have been done since the pics were taken.

[drs]

I was there in October, its exceptionally basic - it is just a pitch that has been fenced off with standing areas barriered off from the main pitch, however we were still standing on the "pitch" despite being behind the barriers.

[LeeKRR1878]

And on the note of crowds.. Bishopbriggs must be one of the most dense area's for youth teams for its size. The area and surrounding areas has LOADS of boys clubs. From Rossvale to West Park. The majority of people in the briggs who support a local side are (rightly) investing their time and support in their own kids team. Might sound daft, but when you look at the size of the briggs - is there enough people to get support for the junior side? How many parents will go watch/support their kids team and then go watch the junior side? Not too many IMO. 

 

It takes an awful long time to build a following, clubs need to be part of a community, something people identity with and are proud of. Many of the well supported junior (and amateur) sides have been doing the community ground work for yyyyyeaaaaars and benefit from it. 

I know what you mean especially in the Briggs. I played for East Dunbartonshire when I played boys club and it has a fully functioning committee aswell as a whole load of volunteers (parents mostly) but I think when they have involvement with a club to that degree they would much rather focus their time on that club than go and watch the juniors. I'm sure West Park are run the same way.

[Burnie_man]

1 hour ago, drs said:

I was there in October, its exceptionally basic - it is just a pitch that has been fenced off with standing areas barriered off from the main pitch, however we were still standing on the "pitch" despite being behind the barriers.

Sounds similar to Whitburn Academy when Whitburn Juniors played there temporarily, and the East Region received complaints from other clubs about the facilities. How far are the changing rooms from the pitch?

[drs]

Not sure, they are in the school next door. I thought both teams would stay on the pitch at half time but they both went trotting off back into the school.

Toilets for fans are in the Sports Centre.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.871535,-3.966915,15z

Nothing against Gartcairn by the way and I know they are looking at improving the facilities.

I'm behind Number 10 here, with the School behind the camera, you can just see my left leg.

 

 

[Ezra]

I was there in October, its exceptionally basic - it is just a pitch that has been fenced off with standing areas barriered off from the main pitch, however we were still standing on the "pitch" despite being behind the barriers.

There is hard standing the full length of the one side of the park. The toilets are in the sport centre which is 50 yards from the park.
The Sjfa have deemed the MTC fit for junior football so there's no issues there. They also hosted a healthy Whitburn crowd in the Scottish cup recently with no hassles. It's all to easy to criticise clubs that are starting out when they should applauded for their efforts. Gartcairn were presented with a top UEFA award last for their academy, the kids that started out are now playing U16 football so given time they will produce youngster for the juniors.

[drs]

The toilets are not 50 yards from the pitch, you have to go down the hall then right round to the other side of the sports centre and then actually go into the centre.

...and I'm sure you can point out where they were criticised.

[Ezra]

Maybe they should just build a wall and pee behind it like a lot of the old juniors grounds have which are just stinking hovels, Camelon and Armadale are two that spring to mind

[drs]

Sounds good to me, would save me weary legs if I'm ever there again.

[Burnie_man]

13 minutes ago, drs said:

Not sure, they are in the school next door. I thought both teams would stay on the pitch at half time but they both went trotting off back into the school.

Toilets for fans are in the Sports Centre.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.871535,-3.966915,15z

Nothing against Gartcairn by the way and I know they are looking at improving the facilities.

I'm behind Number 10 here, with the School behind the camera, you can just see my left leg.

 

 

 

I can't see how that can be SJFA compliant.  As mentioned above, Whitburn were given dispensation by the East Region to use Whitburn Academy for one season after the Central Park pavilion was damaged, they ended up playing there for two, but were not allowed to use it for a third season (ie last season), but they moved back to Central Park after a few months of last season anyway.  I don't think they were allowed to use it for Junior Cup ties although I could be wrong.

Gartcairn's facilities sound very similar, I think one of the concerns with Whitburn Academy was that the changing facilities were in the school building,a  bit of a distance from the pitch and obviously outwith the boundary of the ground.

It seems different Regions approach ground regulations differently.

[Burnie_man]

15 minutes ago, Ezra said:

Maybe they should just build a wall and pee behind it like a lot of the old juniors grounds have which are just stinking hovels, Camelon and Armadale are two that spring to mind

Too many Junior grounds don't have basic toilet facilities in place and it's something the SJFA need to address.

[LeedsPhil]

1 hour ago, Burnie_man said:

 

I can't see how that can be SJFA compliant.  As mentioned above, Whitburn were given dispensation by the East Region to use Whitburn Academy for one season after the Central Park pavilion was damaged, they ended up playing there for two, but were not allowed to use it for a third season (ie last season), but they moved back to Central Park after a few months of last season anyway.  I don't think they were allowed to use it for Junior Cup ties although I could be wrong.

You are not wrong. Whitburn's only "home" Junior Cup tie during their exile at the school was played at Stoneyburn. Lost 1-2 to St Roch's in R2 on Saturday 25th October 2014.