Examples of managers doing better

[BFTD]

Harry Redknapp used to have a rep for being the guy to bring in when you needed a quick bung change of fortunes.

O'Neill and Coleman both did poorly for quite a while after taking over their current roles, which justifies WGS getting time beyond the last campaign to a degree. Not sure either of them spent time running down their player base or domestic leagues, though.

[Big Fifer]

1 hour ago, DA Baracus said:

The SFA said that Strachan talked to them and convinced them that he is the best man for the job.

I think, given the wage on offer for very little work, pretty much anyone on this forum would have been able to come up with enough waffle to keep themselves in such a kooshty wee number if they were under "pressure". If I was being paid what he is for playing golf 40 weeks of the year, I'd have the full powerpoint shibang on show for the board displaying my best "3 wins in 2 years but I've got this" presentation.

He appears to have been able to manage it without even turning up to the meeting, which is frighteningly impressive (or just frightening).

[Officer Barbrady]

1 hour ago, forameus said:

I don't disagree.   But have the SFA said things along those lines or is it reading between them?  That seems to be the line from pundits,  

I like to think they're actually putting some thought into the next manager, and just biding their time.  Qualification is most likely gone, and unless we lose against Lithuania and/or Malta, we'll probably end the campaign just a different shade of shite than we are now.  I'm probably alone in it, but if the right manager isn't out there, I'd rather they didn't just plump for the one that was available.  A caretaker would be an option in that case of course.  But the "right" option is something that doesn't really become apparent right away of course, and it's already a pretty alien concept to the SFA as it is.

I wouldn't say they plumped for 'beige' options in any of the last few appointments.....arguably Brown ticks that box. Even Burley and Levein were welcomed as 'new age' prophets, as opposed to simply filling a vacancy.

 

The difference between those and now, is that there was a unifying sense of urgency with each passing disaster. The body language of all belligrents in this, is of simply putting their hands to their ears, going 'LLLAAAALLLLAAAA CAN'T HEAR YOU', completely devoid of and instinctive emotions about the state of things. That Regan is being endorsed by Strachan in his 'we wuz robbed' conspiracy, is rubbing salt in the wound.....Regan isn't here to talk about football, he's there to manage the business. And it's failin, while he does nothing about it. 

 

Give me Jesus Gil or Florentino Perez any day of the week. At least they were guilty of showing a bit of humanity when required. 

[forameus]

2 minutes ago, Officer Barbrady said:

I wouldn't say they plumped for 'beige' options in any of the last few appointments.....arguably Brown ticks that box. Even Burley and Levein were welcomed as 'new age' prophets, as opposed to simply filling a vacancy.

 

The difference between those and now, is that there was a unifying sense of urgency with each passing disaster. The body language of all belligrents in this, is of simply putting their hands to their ears, going 'LLLAAAALLLLAAAA CAN'T HEAR YOU', completely devoid of and instinctive emotions about the state of things. That Regan is being endorsed by Strachan in his 'we wuz robbed' conspiracy, is rubbing salt in the wound.....Regan isn't here to talk about football, he's there to manage the business. And it's failin, while he does nothing about it. 

 

Give me Jesus Gil or Florentino Perez any day of the week. At least they were guilty of showing a bit of humanity when required. 

Beige was perhaps the wrong phrase to use.  I originally put "sort by reputation", but then I'm not sure they always go for the high reputation ones either.

You talk about business, but is the business - from Regan's perspective - failing?  They're probably making more money from tickets than they ever have.  I know it shouldn't be about that, but it is what it is.

[DA Baracus]

2 hours ago, BigFatTabbyDave said:

Harry Redknapp used to have a rep for being the guy to bring in when you needed a quick bung change of fortunes.

O'Neill and Coleman both did poorly for quite a while after taking over their current roles, which justifies WGS getting time beyond the last campaign to a degree. Not sure either of them spent time running down their player base or domestic leagues, though.

I think O'Neill and Coleman asked for patience and said openly that they'd probably go on a poor run at first, but I don't recall them talking down their players and the team overall. There were probably signs that their teams were starting to work, and folk were behind the project.

With Strachan we have the same system we've used for years now, the same system that has utterly failed. And of course Strachan has become an absolute shitebag and has started using a whole load of excuses, as well as talking down the players and the team.

He's a knob.

57 minutes ago, Big Fifer said:

I think, given the wage on offer for very little work, pretty much anyone on this forum would have been able to come up with enough waffle to keep themselves in such a kooshty wee number if they were under "pressure". If I was being paid what he is for playing golf 40 weeks of the year, I'd have the full powerpoint shibang on show for the board displaying my best "3 wins in 2 years but I've got this" presentation.

He appears to have been able to manage it without even turning up to the meeting, which is frighteningly impressive (or just frightening).

I would have given a punishingly in depth presentation with a full day's agenda written out. There would have been fucking cakes and pastries and an hour for lunch.

It seems that Strachan made a quick phone from the 9th green of whatever course he was on and gave a quick load of pish before his credit ran out.

[Officer Barbrady]

1 hour ago, forameus said:

Beige was perhaps the wrong phrase to use.  I originally put "sort by reputation", but then I'm not sure they always go for the high reputation ones either.

You talk about business, but is the business - from Regan's perspective - failing?  They're probably making more money from tickets than they ever have.  I know it shouldn't be about that, but it is what it is.

Well, in that regard, Regan's doing a great job. Succesfully selling that shite to 35-40,000 gullible fannies is no mean feat. 

[Father Ted]

Strachan is not getting the best out of the players FACT.

By talking them down "scared footballers", etc. He's making excuses for them not to try harder. The media sycophants, ex managers, players backing this up, is making it worse.

It's a downward spiral and difficult to reverse unless you change manager and general attitude.

I'm sick of the downbeat negativity that surrounds our players capabilities.

They are capable of a lot more than they have shown recently.

While I'm at it, I can't stand the way Strachan talks about players after games, that he feels sorry for them, etc.

They are grown men and need to get a grip and stop being treated like a kid whose had his dinner money stolen.

[Monkey Tennis]

13 hours ago, forameus said:

We just won't know until someone gets put in.  Strachan was what seemed to be a very positive appointment in the minds of most when he came in.  Michael O'Neill is mentioned a lot, but he had an absolute nightmare opening to his reign, and that would have probably got him as much hate as Strachan has now.  

Well yes, but the point is that O'Neill came good.

Strachan hasn't.  In fact, it's all got a fair bit worse.  He can't say he wasn't given time, because he's been given loads and it's got progressively worse.  

Citing Michael O'Neill's case does really not help yours.

[Scary Bear]

I don't disagree.   But have the SFA said things along those lines or is it reading between them?  That seems to be the line from pundits,  

I like to think they're actually putting some thought into the next manager, and just biding their time.  Qualification is most likely gone, and unless we lose against Lithuania and/or Malta, we'll probably end the campaign just a different shade of shite than we are now.  I'm probably alone in it, but if the right manager isn't out there, I'd rather they didn't just plump for the one that was available.  A caretaker would be an option in that case of course.  But the "right" option is something that doesn't really become apparent right away of course, and it's already a pretty alien concept to the SFA as it is.

It's the SFA doing the picking. They don't seem to have that knack of finding the right person. They'd be better just printing out photos of 100 potential managers who they can afford to employ. Stick the photos up on a wall and throw darts to select a list for interview.

In fact, they'd just pick the wrong one at interview stage. Just stick to throwing darts and blind luck.

[TheScarf]

15 hours ago, Father Ted said:

Strachan is not getting the best out of the players FACT.

By talking them down "scared footballers", etc. He's making excuses for them not to try harder. The media sycophants, ex managers, players backing this up, is making it worse.

It's a downward spiral and difficult to reverse unless you change manager and general attitude.

I'm sick of the downbeat negativity that surrounds our players capabilities.

They are capable of a lot more than they have shown recently.

While I'm at it, I can't stand the way Strachan talks about players after games, that he feels sorry for them, etc.

They are grown men and need to get a grip and stop being treated like a kid whose had his dinner money stolen.

Indeed, Scotland have players good enough to reach the play offs each campaign.  Theyjust need set up and motivated to do it.

[forameus]

10 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Well yes, but the point is that O'Neill came good.

Strachan hasn't.  In fact, it's all got a fair bit worse.  He can't say he wasn't given time, because he's been given loads and it's got progressively worse.  

Citing Michael O'Neill's case does really not help yours.

 Serious business this.  I'm not "making a case", I'm pointing out that if we hired someone and they had the record O'Neill had in his early days, there'd be the usual fury and hate directed at him, and he'd be unlikely to get the extra time that O'Neill had to actually come good.

Your haughty admonishment would probably work if I was directly comparing the two.  Strachan will go, and someone new will come in that will probably just be more of the same and in two years we can all come back here and do the same routine.  Hopefully the cycle changes.

[TheScarf]

The difference being of course, that O'Neill wouldn't belittle the North Irish league and belittle the players he had at his disposal. 

[7-2]

Ok, this isn't going to go down well here as it's egg chasing but it's a perfect comparison given the circumstances. Eddie Jones taking over the England rugby team is a classic example of a manager doing better. They were plodding along, totally underachieving under Lancaster, the best Englishman for the job, culminating in them totally embarrassing themselves at their own World Cup. In comes Jones, from the hated rival Aussieland and the first Johnny foreigner to manage God's team and hey presto, world beaters. It's basically the same squad that have won 10 in a row including some historic wins and could well beat the All Blacks.

This is all down to Jones coming in with a totally different attitude to the previous little Englanders, new training methods and general approach to the game. Probably exactly everything the SFA are scared of.

 

[forameus]

21 minutes ago, 7-2 said:

Ok, this isn't going to go down well here as it's egg chasing but it's a perfect comparison given the circumstances. Eddie Jones taking over the England rugby team is a classic example of a manager doing better. They were plodding along, totally underachieving under Lancaster, the best Englishman for the job, culminating in them totally embarrassing themselves at their own World Cup. In comes Jones, from the hated rival Aussieland and the first Johnny foreigner to manage God's team and hey presto, world beaters. It's basically the same squad that have won 10 in a row including some historic wins and could well beat the All Blacks.

This is all down to Jones coming in with a totally different attitude to the previous little Englanders, new training methods and general approach to the game. Probably exactly everything the SFA are scared of.

Spot on.  There needs to be more than just the "we need a good Scotsman" attitude that we've  had since Vogts.  Although knowing the SFA, instead of picking up the football equivalent of Eddie Jones, they'd manage to hire a foreigner that was even worse than the Scot they would have hired.  It's cos hes pure foreign, ken.

[Al B]

Mark McGhee has come to Motherwell twice and turned us around twice, we should get him involved with the Scotland setup.

Wait, hang on.....

[Monkey Tennis]

8 hours ago, forameus said:

 Serious business this.  I'm not "making a case", I'm pointing out that if we hired someone and they had the record O'Neill had in his early days, there'd be the usual fury and hate directed at him, and he'd be unlikely to get the extra time that O'Neill had to actually come good.

Your haughty admonishment would probably work if I was directly comparing the two.  Strachan will go, and someone new will come in that will probably just be more of the same and in two years we can all come back here and do the same routine.  Hopefully the cycle changes.

Oh, Christ.  

Now he's pointing out that a managerial change won't guarantee an upturn in fortunes, as if this is a perspective that escapes the rest of us. 

[Officer Barbrady]

8 hours ago, forameus said:

 Serious business this.  I'm not "making a case", I'm pointing out that if we hired someone and they had the record O'Neill had in his early days, there'd be the usual fury and hate directed at him, and he'd be unlikely to get the extra time that O'Neill had to actually come good.

Your haughty admonishment would probably work if I was directly comparing the two.  Strachan will go, and someone new will come in that will probably just be more of the same and in two years we can all come back here and do the same routine.  Hopefully the cycle changes.

That's a bit of an unfair respresentation of the mentality. We'll still be shite in two years, so basically there's no point......is that the party line? How far back does this 'who can do better' pish go, exactly? Can we do better than Regan? It's aright for him to charge a fortune, and pay a disinterested, lazy, sarcastic smeg-mark of a manager a sizable chunk of said fortune, just to keep stability? 

 

O'Neill and Coleman both got their added time, because they generally didn't bluff and bluster their way past difficult questions and decisions. I can only speak for myself, but his nature of 'personalising' his relationship with players most definitely does not manifest itself in any positive actions, as far as i can see.....the results we have had should be the subject of a much bigger inquest on a much more important medium than PnB. But in order for that to occur, sufficient numbers would have to give a shit.