The Official Former President Trump thread

[vikingTON]

2 hours ago, Fullerene said:

There was every suggestion the Japanese were prepared to fight to the last man to protect the home islands.

Apart from the Japanese government having already made peace feelers to the Allies and with  a Soviet invasion  of their territory in east Asia already planned to occur on August 8th.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x125ml3

The decision can be justified or condemned in various ways: what cannot be trotted out is the claim that the US had to drop the bomb to end the war. That is nonsense.  The decision to drop the atomic bomb was made weeks in advance and was weighed far more by its intended diplomatic effects on the Soviet Union* than its effectiveness as a weapon.

 

 

* which needless to say failed spectacularly

 

[Fullerene]

9 minutes ago, virginton said:

Apart from the Japanese government having already made peace feelers to the Allies and with  a Soviet invasion  of their territory in east Asia already planned to occur on August 8th.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x125ml3

The decision can be justified or condemned in various ways: what cannot be trotted out is the claim that the US had to drop the bomb to end the war. That is nonsense.  The decision to drop the atomic bomb was made weeks in advance and was weighed far more by its intended diplomatic effects on the Soviet Union* than its effectiveness as a weapon.

 

 

* which needless to say failed spectacularly

 

The Japanese government had elements that wanted peace and were looking at ways to end the war and it had elements that wanted to continue the war at all costs.

It was blindingly obvious that Japan had lost the war, it had run out of fuel, the naval blockade stopped any supplies getting through, the Americans had total control of the skies over Japan and yet Japan would not surrender.  I can easily imagine the Americans getting totally frustrated by it all.  Maybe more should have been done through diplomacy (such as letting the Japanese keep the Emperor ) but failing that - when the bomb became available - it also became the only military option the Americans were focused on.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

55 minutes ago, dorlomin said:

Approximately between 20 and 33 million Chinese people were killed by the Sino Japanese war. That war lasted about 3270 days so taking the high estimate about 10 000 Chinese people were killed by the Japanese war per day. Taking the high estimate of 120 0000 dead Hiroshima was about 12 days of the 8 year long Japanese war of aggression against the then US ally China. 

 

Yet the Leninist is weeping for the Japanese here. 

 

So on a purely human scale if the bombing shortened the war by 12 days it was a net gain for human lives. And that does not take into account the possibility of Japanese massacres had the war dragged on to an invasion. 

That's one way of twisting the figures to suit your agenda.

There's no chance that the Japanese are killing 10000 per day in August 1945. As stated by VT above, at Yalta the Soviets had already agreed to enter the theatre after the war in Europe was finished. In fact they dished out an absolute hounding to the Japanese and destroyed a million strong army in the space of two weeks.

Regardless of the rights and wrongs of dropping the bomb and there's arguments for both, you're trying to justify the vaporizing of over 150000 civilians in order to save a couple of thousand lives on the battlefield.

Bet this post makes me worse than Stalin though, amarite ?

[renton]

58 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

 

To save quoting the wall of text you’re acknowledging however that the goal of dropping the bomb wasn’t wholly some benevolent desire to end the bloodshed but was motivated by the expenditure on the bomb, domestic opinion in not using it and tactical considerations against the Soviets? The states alternatives may not be convincing to you but the argument that the US didn’t seriously pursue these alternatives once Truman was in office still ring true.

 

I think the point is that they weren't credible alternatives and therefore not worthy of serious pursuit in the first place.

[welshbairn]

There's something disturbing about their experimentation on the effects of 2 different types of bomb. 

[renton]

57 minutes ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

That's one way of twisting the figures to suit your agenda.

There's no chance that the Japanese are killing 10000 per day in August 1945. As stated by VT above, at Yalta the Soviets had already agreed to enter the theatre after the war in Europe was finished. In fact they dished out an absolute hounding to the Japanese and destroyed a million strong army in the space of two weeks.

Regardless of the rights and wrongs of dropping the bomb and there's arguments for both, you're trying to justify the vaporizing of over 150000 civilians in order to save a couple of thousand lives on the battlefield.

Bet this post makes me worse than Stalin though, amarite ?

The other side of that argument though is Okinawa, New Guinea and the Phillipines, where the Japanese were capable of putting up a hard fight. The Soviets invading Manchuria in 1945 is a different beast from the US invading the home islands, as in the former, the Soviets were able to make the most of their vast superiority in artillery and armour, to which the Japanese had literally no answer. In the latter, the Japanese would be able to constrict the space, in hilly terrain and towns and cities forcing the US to give up a lot of it's advantages in mechanised warfare for a straight up infantry brawl (as well as massed Kamikaze attacks on the massed allied fleets offshore). 

Edited June 15, 2018 by renton

[dorlomin]

1 hour ago, virginton said:

Apart from the Japanese government having already made peace feelers to the Allies

You mean restart the good faith negotiations they broke off on the afternoon of the 7th of December 1941 

 

Edited June 15, 2018 by dorlomin

[banana]

13 hours ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

Well this escalated quickly.

Could you please point out where in Marx's works he advocates executing those who dispute details. Or indeed, how many people were executed by Marx and his regime.

Hard-left apologists never fail to amaze with their list of dogmatic mental gymnastics defences.

#notREALmarxismbrah

[banana]

On 6/13/2018 at 01:03, Alan Stubbs said:

Weak brah. The second bit that you've highlighted is demonstrably true based on the crickets whenever you post about whatever some fanny at a US College is up to. Know your audience m9.

Help me out though and suggest some sources of news I can turn to and escape this brainwashing I've been subjected to? With your help I can stop forming my entire worldview from Comment Is Free, I know I can.

I am prepared to be red-pilled and escape the clutches of the globalist devils. Show me the way please, with links.

I address what The Brainwashed here post themselves, not necessarily what tumblr lunatics or college nutters are up to, sweetie. You're in control of your own keyboard.

The underlying 'Progressive' dogma comes from the same place whether it's typed here or is going on with the shoutier radicals,  hence The Brainwashed not realising they are brainwashed.

Don't shoot the messenger, brah!

[dorlomin]

12 minutes ago, banana said:

The underlying 'Progressive' dogma comes from the same place whether it's typed here or is going on with the shoutier radicals,  

"or is going on with the shoutier radicals,  "

Its just a word salad. 

[JamieThomas]

Any news on Fatty this morning, or this now a SLAUGHTER ALL GOOKS DI DI MAU thread?

[D Angelo Barksdale]

3 hours ago, banana said:

Hard-left apologists never fail to amaze with their list of dogmatic mental gymnastics defences.

#notREALmarxismbrah

 Hard left apologist.

I take it that you're unable to answer the question.

2 hours ago, banana said:

I address what The Brainwashed here post themselves, not necessarily what tumblr lunatics or college nutters are up to, sweetie. You're in control of your own keyboard.

The underlying 'Progressive' dogma comes from the same place whether it's typed here or is going on with the shoutier radicals,  hence The Brainwashed not realising they are brainwashed.

Don't shoot the messenger, brah!

My man Stubbs asked you for links and sources, where are they brah ?

[Granny Danger]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44500034

Manafort jailed!  Happy days.

Judge must have thought there was sufficient proof that he was trying to tamper with witnesses.

 

[Fullerene]

5 hours ago, renton said:

The other side of that argument though is Okinawa, New Guinea and the Phillipines, where the Japanese were capable of putting up a hard fight. The Soviets invading Manchuria in 1945 is a different beast from the US invading the home islands, as in the former, the Soviets were able to make the most of their vast superiority in artillery and armour, to which the Japanese had literally no answer. In the latter, the Japanese would be able to constrict the space, in hilly terrain and towns and cities forcing the US to give up a lot of its advantages in mechanised warfare for a straight up infantry brawl (as well as massed Kamikaze attacks on the massed allied fleets offshore). 

FTFY

[NotThePars]

I guess if you’re a rich white conman the key lesson to learn here is that it’s unwise to attach yourself to a presidential campaign that might actually win.

[welshbairn]

27 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

I guess if you’re a rich white conman the key lesson to learn here is that it’s unwise to attach yourself to a presidential campaign that might actually win.

According to the Michael Wolff book several of the Trump clan shat themselves when it looked like he was winning, including Trump himself. Manafort himself was warned early on about the scrutiny his dodgy dealings would come under but chose to ignore the dangers. Doubt he'll grass on Trump if he has anything on him because the only hope he probably has for not dying in prison is a Presidential pardon.

[madwullie]

He's in too deep with dodgy Russians to flip. No doubt the polonium tea is ready to be served to his wife and daughters. 

Best hope for me outwith going to trial is trump firing out a pre-emptive pardon. Then the shit really will hit the fan (and if it doesn't, frankly America will deserve the country its turning into) 

[welshbairn]

Good debate on what's happening to the world order from all perspectives, including trumpets, anti globalists and old fashioned liberals. Something only the World Service can do without ending up as a screaming match.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3cswkd7

[Savage Henry]

According to the Michael Wolff book several of the Trump clan shat themselves when it looked like he was winning, including Trump himself. Manafort himself was warned early on about the scrutiny his dodgy dealings would come under but chose to ignore the dangers. Doubt he'll grass on Trump if he has anything on him because the only hope he probably has for not dying in prison is a Presidential pardon.

Manafort’s all in on the pardon.

The more interesting one is Trump’s lawyer chap who dresses like a minor character in Cheers. He’s just sacked his attorneys due to cash flow problems and will likely turn State’s witness.

[Granny Danger]

1 hour ago, Savage Henry said:

 

Manafort’s all in on the pardon.

The more interesting one is Trump’s lawyer chap who dresses like a minor character in Cheers. He’s just sacked his attorneys due to cash flow problems and will likely turn State’s witness.

 

A presidential pardon will be a big nail in Trump’s coffin and will finish off any chance of re-election.

Mind you the midterms are going to be an interesting indication of political thinking in the US.  It will be interesting to see if the smoke and mirrors approach will work.