welshbairn Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Peppino Impastato said: I totally disagree. This is the first time ever Kim has committed to full denuclearisation. It's actually really big. You contradict yourself a little by suggesting they've been denuclearising for decades.... next time they test another missile. They won't test any more imo. That's the whole point. North Korea have committed themselves to denuclearisation multiple times, this is just young Kim's first go. Never happened. Hope something does come of this time but I wouldn't hold my breath. https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2000_11/timeline https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/dprkchron Edited June 12, 2018 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Good thread.As to TCK’s comment I’m all for giving our nuclear weapons to the regimes that the US threatens. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 It's a four paragraph memo. The only thing that has changed from existing policy is that Kim is now legitimised. So next time he tests a missile, he can turn around and point to all the millions of TV viewers who love him. North Korea has been "denuclearising" for years. The west has been bailing North Korea out of famines for decades. Kim is now some kind of demi-god and can act with complete impunity. North Korea’s government has been in place for much longer than many other regimes that the US has legitimised. It doesn’t benefit anyone with real skin in the game, including the North Korean people, to treat the government as illegitimate at this point. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiG Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Good thread here also: Interesting that Trump has decided to stop military exercises with South Korea as it will save the US money and is considered to be "hugely proactive" (I assume to North Korea). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 7 minutes ago, NotThePars said: North Korea’s government has been in place for much longer than many other regimes that the US has legitimised. It doesn’t benefit anyone with real skin in the game, including the North Korean people, to treat the government as illegitimate at this point. Right, but the actions of the government are now legitimised. And that's a different matter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Right, but the actions of the government are now legitimised. And that's a different matter. I sincerely doubt that the North Korean people were going to be swayed by the opinion of the United States government tbh. The possibility of loosening sanctions and building greater relations with South Korea will do much more for the people than continuing to sabre rattle and blockade. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Moon Jae-in played a blinder by whispering "Nobel Peace Prize!" in Trump's ear. Wouldn't surprise me if Xi Jinping suggested it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dindeleux Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 I'm going to be honest and say that, with some things, my thoughts on Trump are softening to being a bit more positive. I don't know enough about internal American politics to really make a great comment so I'm going to do what I think Trump is doing - speaking from the heart with little intelligence. I think he should be commended for at least making steps to solve these issues. To have the summit is great in my opinion. I completely understand that, for those who know or claim to know better, they may think its all just smoke and mirrors but I think he spoke honestly today and his business-like view is quite matter-of-fact and I tend to believe him when he says some of these things. For those who feel he has legitmised Kim, he probably has. However surely someone was going to have to bring North Korea into the modern world and take this step. If he has given stuff up without getting concrete agreements back then fair play to him.........even thought I appreciate this may be due to his lack of political nous as opposed to some grand plan to make peace with NK. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 2 hours ago, NotThePars said: I’m all for giving our nuclear weapons to the regimes that the US threatens. Edgelord. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Edgelord. Genuine question: do you have any references or opinions that aren’t 20 years out of date? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, NotThePars said: Genuine question: Quote I’m all for giving our nuclear weapons to the regimes that the US threatens. "Genuine" is not a word I would associate with you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Dindeleux said: I'm going to be honest and say that, with some things, my thoughts on Trump are softening to being a bit more positive. I don't know enough about internal American politics to really make a great comment so I'm going to do what I think Trump is doing - speaking from the heart with little intelligence. I think he should be commended for at least making steps to solve these issues. To have the summit is great in my opinion. I completely understand that, for those who know or claim to know better, they may think its all just smoke and mirrors but I think he spoke honestly today and his business-like view is quite matter-of-fact and I tend to believe him when he says some of these things. For those who feel he has legitmised Kim, he probably has. However surely someone was going to have to bring North Korea into the modern world and take this step. If he has given stuff up without getting concrete agreements back then fair play to him.........even thought I appreciate this may be due to his lack of political nous as opposed to some grand plan to make peace with NK. It's certainly a lot better than when they were threatening to nuke either and it looked like Seoul and Pyongyang could be days away from oblivion. Good to see him keeping Bolton on a leash and only letting him out as a not so subtle warning. It's an interesting tactic to agree to virtually nothing and shaking on it, it usually goes the other way around. Mind you, the conventional approach never worked with NK in the past. It's wholly dependent on Kim seriously wanting to bring his country into the 21st century and bringing his people some prosperity. The ruling class already have it though, so there has to be a chance they'll knock him off and put a hardliner in his place if they think he's upsetting the natural order. He sacked his military chiefs before the meeting, so there is some resistance. Edited June 12, 2018 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieThomas Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Fat lad needs cash Other fat lad needs adulation Handshake Everyone's a winner 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Stubbs Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, banana said: Strangely quiet in here for such a monumental day... Waiting for your 'Progressive' MSM Trump-hate talking points? EDIT: as if by magic! Seeing as you're actually addressing the rest of the forum instead of calling against some uber lefty persona that I don't think even exists on here, I'll have a wee nibble. Genuine question, who or what are you rallying against all time on P&B? Everything I read from you seems like it's digging out some purple-haired US college trigglypuff type. Progressive! MSM! Identity politics! cultural appropriation! Do you think anyone on here gives a shite about that absolute guff? Your posts like you're trying to bait some American tumblr emo, rather than a bunch of folk who are probably about 95% working to middle class Scottish men. If folk on here don't like Trump, it's probably less to do with them being indoctrinated by CNN and more to do with the fact that he's a total w**k. Edited June 12, 2018 by Alan Stubbs 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Angelo Barksdale Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Looking forward to the tear stained twitter meltdown when he ends up not getting the Nobel prize. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lofarl Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Like Nixon going to China. Only Trump could meet The North Korean leader. As regards to him stopping military exercises with South Korea, I guess someone had to take the plunge with a big overture. If doing that can allow sometime along the line enable NK to give up its nukes then all the better. It’s far more easier to resume a joint military exercise, which they’ve done for neigh on 60 years than to fire up a nuclear weapons programme. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Can you imagine the Republicans if Obama had sat next to Kim signing that communique with NK flags nestling next the Stars and Stripes? They'd be apoplectic, even more than they were with the Iran deal that actually achieved something. I hope Kim is serious but the talk of reunification is dangerous. That would guarantee the end of Kim and his regime, and the Chinese would never allow it anyway, unless it was under their suzerainty. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dindeleux Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Other fat lad needs adulation Every time Trump name dropped a leader at the press conference he was saying “we’re great friends”. Hopefully this desire to be everyone’s pal will lead to more good than bad.Or like the kid at school who tries to be friends but no-one likes he might just decide, in true American fashion, to go out in a blaze of glory. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The OP Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 42 minutes ago, Lofarl said: Like Nixon going to China. Only Trump could meet The North Korean leader. As regards to him stopping military exercises with South Korea, I guess someone had to take the plunge with a big overture. If doing that can allow sometime along the line enable NK to give up its nukes then all the better. It’s far more easier to resume a joint military exercise, which they’ve done for neigh on 60 years than to fire up a nuclear weapons programme. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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