East expert Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 1 minute ago, Burnie_man said: Oh god, another one. Please, stick to the subject rather than attacking other members for actually having the gumption to discuss this, which is what the Pie and Bovril forum is about, you are free to challenge anything I post. Your bait was a tad obvious. That obvious you gave it a minus on the reputation. It's not about you having the gumption, it's your total and utter refusal to accept any others point of view. When this was discussed previously and Lochore were mentioned as one club who were having issues due to travel costs you were totally dismissive. it seems as the newest arrangement suits your club you refuse to accept any other point of view, be that right or wrong according to the majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Wheeling back towards the topic... obviously the idea of abolishing the Premier and moving back to 3 districts, although without the old county boundaries, is not unexpected and has been debated plenty on here already. In that context the fact of more limited promotion & relegation arrangements aren't unexpected - you can hardly relegate 6 clubs from a division. What appears more surprising is the proposal to also reduce the Superleague to 14 clubs, meaning a loss of 4 games and only 14 clubs playing region-wide. Given they have to send 3 down and put fourth-bottom into a playoff it also means almost 1/3 of that division could be relegated each season, while of course 48 clubs below only have 1 promotion slot + playoff to aim for. Equally intriguing is the decision to reorganise the EOS Junior Cup such that half the District clubs have to play an extra round than now, whilst the Superleague clubs play one round fewer than now. What'll be the thinking behind that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Just now, East expert said: That obvious you gave it a minus on the reputation. It's not about you having the gumption, it's your total and utter refusal to accept any others point of view. When this was discussed previously and Lochore were mentioned as one club who were having issues due to travel costs you were totally dismissive. it seems as the newest arrangement suits your club you refuse to accept any other point of view, be that right or wrong according to the majority. I don't recall you actually debating this at the time, not under this ID anyway, Do you think the problems faced by one club (or a handful) should lead to the full scale re-organisation of the East Region? There is an easy answer of course, Lochore request a move to the South Division to reduce travel, they haven't. Anyway it appears their issue is lack of committee and at one point this season only two or three people were actively helping to run the club, tough times and deserving of better from their community, but travel won't change that. The current set-up suits everyone, if you disagree with that then feel free to propose an alternative.Remember to play the ball and not the man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East expert Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 1 minute ago, Burnie_man said: I don't recall you actually debating this at the time, not under this ID anyway, Do you think the problems faced by one club (or a handful) should lead to the full scale re-organisation of the East Region? There is an easy answer of course, Lochore request a move to the South Division to reduce travel, they haven't. Anyway it appears their issue is lack of committee and at one point this season only two or three people were actively helping to run the club, tough times and deserving of better from their community, but travel won't change that. The current set-up suits everyone, if you disagree with that then feel free to propose an alternative.Remember to play the ball and not the man. That's the thing, I don't disagree that the current set up is the best we can do. However, I am willing to listen to others proposals and point of view without jumping in every post telling them they're wrong. I used Lochore as an example and have no connection or affiliation to them. I don't think one or a handful of clubs should dictate to others but as noted, I do think people should be allowed an opinion regardless of whether you or countless others thinks it's wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 One other point - the 'Central' District extends from Luncarty, well north of Perth, and Kinnoull to Craigroyston and Edinburgh United...!! Presumably this is to keep the North District to Dundee + Angus and the South District to West, Mid + East Lothian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8MileBU Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Be good if they introduced play-offs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 7 minutes ago, East expert said: That's the thing, I don't disagree that the current set up is the best we can do. However, I am willing to listen to others proposals and point of view without jumping in every post telling them they're wrong. I used Lochore as an example and have no connection or affiliation to them. I don't think one or a handful of clubs should dictate to others but as noted, I do think people should be allowed an opinion regardless of whether you or countless others thinks it's wrong. Everyone is allowed an opinion, it's a forum, and I'm allowed an opinion as well. Anychance's proposal he posted earlier is a good one, and I said as much, so................. Anyway, back to the subject in hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 10 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said: One other point - the 'Central' District extends from Luncarty, well north of Perth, and Kinnoull to Craigroyston and Edinburgh United...!! Presumably this is to keep the North District to Dundee + Angus and the South District to West, Mid + East Lothian. Never actually noticed that, deary me.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclizine Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Looking from the outside, this does seem like a step backwards, particularly with the famously parochial West looking at emulating the East! In reality, distances in Scotland outwith the North are not great.Sadly, I suspect clubs complaining about travelling in the East probably have other issues behind the scenes. Arguably (and this is not meant to be condescending), there is already a structure for teams to play locally outwith the ERJFA in the KCL and FAFA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanCamelonfan Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 I don't think its a bad plan just don't think we really require the change. Current set up is fine to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 9 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: Never actually noticed that, deary me.......... It should surely have been more reasonable to put Tayport (who are after all in Fife!) into the Central District, allowing them to drop Luncarty and Kinnoull into the North District... then done something with a couple of West Lothian clubs to put them into the Central District alongside the Fife clubs and Sauchie, although I can't immediately see how you'd do that. It's hardly 'Central' embracing everything from to Glenshee to Colinton. Of course reducing the Superleague to 14 will be part of the problem: with 47 clubs to distribute among 3 districts and only 48 slots to play with there is very little room for manoeuvre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 OK I'll post my thoughts and leave it there for the time being in case anyone else gets upset......... The return of large District Leagues with only one automatic promotion spot for each – this was the main reason that clubs wanted change 4 years ago, too many clubs fighting over too few promotion spots. Play-offs do not address this. Currently there are 6 automatic promotion spots in the set-up, under this proposal it will be halved to 3, how can that be good for competition. The gap in standard between Superleague and District is significant - that is why we have a Premier League - and with three automatic relegation spots and only 14 clubs, those who are fortunate enough to be promoted could be faced with an immediate return to the Districts unless they invest significantly to survive in a 14 team Superleague. Many clubs in the Region will be doomed to season after season of District League football with little prospect of promotion due to stronger clubs being involved at District level with no Premier League, combined with less promotion spots. This problem existed prior to reconstruction in 2013. There will continue to be clubs moved around the District Leagues which will become unbalanced as they were before, Central clubs will be moved to North or South as a result. This example shows clubs north of Perth in the same District league as clubs from Edinburgh, how does that address travel concerns? The Superleague clubs, as well as facing two less home league matches, also face less matches in the East of Scotland Cup with getting a bye to the 3rd Round. What justification is there to devalue the main East cup competition in this way? IMO what we have is a dogs dinner proposal, one which is seriously flawed and a retrograde step for the Region, and no amount of tinkering will change that. We currently have the best solution to the challenges of the geography of the East Region, whilst still providing all clubs with sufficient promotion opportunities. It's not perfect, no set-up will ever be perfect, but the fact that it is attracting clubs from other leagues and the West Region are looking to replicate it, must mean it has something going for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pie n beans Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 You hit it on the head burnie, I couldn't have put it better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anychance Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Reading all the comments here I actually think I've come up with the best idea haha the super league and premier league are the best not just the teams but there competitive North and south leagues are dead in the last few years in the south at least a few teams end up battling for the promotion and the others have nothing to play for With my idea of league 1 and 2 being added league 1 especially you would have promotion and relegation making the league exciting rather than that proposal of 3 big leagues with loads of teams after xmas with nothing to play for Regions and these north and south leagues are not competitive enough for all like one boy said there are plenty of local leagues if you want to join them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 2 hours ago, Anychance said: Reading all the comments here I actually think I've come up with the best idea haha the super league and premier league are the best not just the teams but there competitive North and south leagues are dead in the last few years in the south at least a few teams end up battling for the promotion and the others have nothing to play for With my idea of league 1 and 2 being added league 1 especially you would have promotion and relegation making the league exciting rather than that proposal of 3 big leagues with loads of teams after xmas with nothing to play for Regions and these north and south leagues are not competitive enough for all like one boy said there are plenty of local leagues if you want to join them As I said before, I like the idea of everyone playing in four region-wide leagues. More promotion spots, more relegation spots and more teams involved at either end of the table for longer. Overall, most teams will have the same amount of travelling with the Fife teams best placed being roughly in the middle of it all. It’s the only viable alternative to what we currently have that I’ve seen. However the East Region stretches from Angus/Perthshire to within a mile or two of South Lanarkshire, it’s a large area, so IMO we need to have a certain amount of regionalisation at the bottom end. Currently half the clubs play region wide and the other half play more locally, I think that’s a good balance. Until attitudes change towards travel we’ll not see all-in leagues anytime soon, remember that some are trying to push us in the opposite direction with this proposal. The West might go down that road first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anychance Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 As I said before, I like the idea of everyone playing in four region-wide leagues. More promotion spots, more relegation spots and more teams involved at either end of the table for longer. Overall, most teams will have the same amount of travelling with the Fife teams best placed being roughly in the middle of it all. It’s the only viable alternative to what we currently have that I’ve seen. However the East Region stretches from Angus/Perthshire to within a mile or two of South Lanarkshire, it’s a large area, so IMO we need to have a certain amount of regionalisation at the bottom end. Currently half the clubs play region wide and the other half play more locally, I think that’s a good balance. Until attitudes change towards travel we’ll not see all-in leagues anytime soon, remember that some are trying to push us in the opposite direction with this proposal. The West might go down that road first. I just don't feel the juniors will ever improve if we stay with north south and central we need to move on like you said attitudes need to change regional leagues are for amateur teams no offence to them as there are some great ammy teams out their As a player I loved the super league and premier as a couple of wins you were at the top or a couple of losses you were in for a battle if we remove the prem were f**ked I've played for clubs in the north and south and if your no challenging your season could be over by xmas along with 10 other teams look at the south league the now Theres only 3 teams in it now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 I get your point totally, but if we had a fully functioning Pyramid, which obviously we don’t, it should look something like: Local football (Amateur) – District football (Juniors) – Regional football (Juniors) – part National football (Lowland League) – full National football (SPFL) You gradually expand the area of the league you play in as you move upwards through the Pyramid, the Juniors currently have two parts of that covered. Problem is, we don’t have relegation between the bottom of the North/South, and the top Amateur leagues covered by those two districts. However, that's a whole different debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superbigal Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 If your not prepared to travel you should not be classed as professional. There is a level for amateurs. What's it called again emmmmm amateur. 4 leagues no geography and some one should propose it from a club with balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 9 minutes ago, superbigal said: If your not prepared to travel you should not be classed as professional. There is a level for amateurs. What's it called again emmmmm amateur. 4 leagues no geography and some one should propose it from a club with balls. I think clubs need to deal with the immediate issue first, stopping this proposal taking us in the opposite direction! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grinderbrokeyourhearts Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 If we want a shake up how about a relegation from the bottom leagues to the corresponding Amateur Leagues? Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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