Sons v Pars

[DA Baracus]

37 minutes ago, Howlin' Wilf said:

Did you enjoy your steak pie and carrots julienne today OK3?

I almost convinced myself that I still enjoy watching Dumbarton today. Great game and one we should have won.

'Great game'

[D.A.F.C]

59 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

 

You always question our fitness, same sports scientist is still in place, little bit of bad luck with injurys but also a case of players needing to play through niggles when last year we could rest them and still be pretty confident of a win, however IMO the biggest factor is we are needing to go full pelt from the first minute, when players would normally be getting a rest they are having to chase after a hopeless long ball or desperately defend as we have needlessly given the ball away.

Having a large % of games won after an hour also helps you stay fresh. Again can't do that.

 

That's a good point, we need to be smarter with possession and play to our strengths. Since the first half of the first Dumbarton game we have barely strung a move together. Why on earth do we play Reilly when he can't hold onto the ball?

Conversely just how fit were we if we were winning games so easily? Mental fitness maybe more than physical? Old saying you only see someone's true character under pressure. There was signs of weakness in defence without Reid and McAusland. 

Tried and tested defenders is what we needed but we went with untested youngsters. You need two six foot monsters at centre half that can play some football, every team in the league has this except us. With the crowds and budget we have it isn't acceptable that we don't. Next week Raith's centre half will be a nightmare for us. You can see it coming a mile away but we can't fix it.

[Gregor147]

I think Raith could genuinely take 6 or 7 off us next week. 

Ha ha. Behave yourself. As much as I'd love it, it ain't gonnae happen. I think you Pars fans need a reality check. If you stay up that would be an ok season. Did you seriously think you'd win the league?

[parsforlife]

. You need two six foot monsters at centre half that can play some football, every team in the league has this except us.

That's not true, you don't need and many teams don't have 6 ft monsters. There is a hell of a lot more to defending than that.

Our decision making and organisation are far bigger issues in our defence.

[D.A.F.C]

Every team I've seen have physically larger defenders than us apart from Ashcroft and BRE. BRE can't defend though.

[Thommo90]

That's three of the last 4 games at home that we should have picked up more points in.

Not saying we deserved to win it today, but having a bit more attacking play, for example maybe having a player or two chasing crosses into the box and not wee Joe Thomson would help.

Liked sparky in the middle and would keep him there. Can't stick Thomson, why the f**k are we sticking him out wide ?? Aitken doesn't have a clue.

Fleming had a good game and needs to be first pick up top.

[Jan Vojáček]

Quote

Aitkens just trying to temper our expectations, we are competing against teams that are easily double or more our average attendance and full time.  Listen back to derek mcinnes after the celtic game and he points out the huge chasm between his playing budget and celtics.

He has also changed shape and selection recently; bringing back sparky, gaz and barr.  Dropping pettigrew and stevenson after iffy performances,  changing the shape from a 4-4-1-1 to a 4-1-2-3 and moving smith and thomson.

We ve also had to deal with injuries to gaz, barr, fraz and now gall.

Aye, results have been disappointing but we re not far off getting points and we re not isolated.

We re pretty much were i expected us to be at this point, if not where i would have hoped.

Div appears to have had to cull some posts, and my initial response (along with everything else posted today) seems to have been affected, so I'll go again thanks to the wonders of email and copy and paste.

I disagree with pretty much everything you've posted here. The gap between Celtic and Aberdeen is boosted by Champions League money and 3 guaranteed 60,000 sellouts, lets not compare the difference there and the difference between us and Dunfermline - a team who are an average Championship outfit. They are struggling and so are we, so if we can't beat either them, Ayr or St Mirren at home we are in trouble. Every season we've played at this level we've finished above a team with a bigger budget than us, a big budget doesn't guarantee results - look at Livingston last season for proof of that. 

Look at the players we have too, if you seriously think our budget is pennies then how do you explain the signings of guys like Martin, Barr, Stevo, Buchanan, J.Thomson, Stanton and Stirling - all of whom will be on decent enough money. If we were scrapping about with a bunch of low calibre jobbers I could get it, but we're not. We have some very, very good players.

I think that a run of one win in our last eighteen games has done more than enough to 'temper our expectations' without Aitken hitting out with the wee club, nae budget, top top teams, part-time training etc etc. He's been saying it since the Forfar game in July and it reeks of excuses for his own inability to set a team up to actually win a game. As Boghead Ranter said (before it was deleted) you could use any of his interviews after any game on SonsTV and I don't think we'd notice.

We have played a 4-5-1 or 4-4-1-1 in every single game under him this season, barring the shambles of a 4-4-2 that was the first half against Raith.  We've played nothing anywhere near as attacking as a 4-1-2-3, nor would I expect us to as 3 upfront would be suicidal. 

He played Sparky at CB when he had no other options, he's used Garry far too sparingly (or in the wrong role) far too often and Barr seems to play every single game he's fit for - despite the fact he's been very, very poor this season. Gallagher is no great loss as we have 3 players who are more than capable of playing in his position equally as well, if not better (J.Thomson, Sparky, Barr). Wright was always likely to be backup.

It took him 14 games to suss out what we suspected about Pettigrew after about 5 matches - he's not up to this level, and quite why we didn't offer Taggart a contract I'll never know. Stevo has had poor games, and gets dropped, but Thommo has played almost every minute of every game. He's came onto a game in the past few weeks, but prior to that was chronic for a decent period of time, yet was undroppable. I don't get that.

You don't think we're far off getting points (and by that I assume you mean wins)? I really, really do. Ayr United were meant to be our closest rivals - yet they utterly dominated us and played us off the park, Dunfermline were given far, far too much respect yesterday and (with a competent defender) would've taken all 3 points, whilst we failed to beat an utterly rancid St Mirren team. If we don't take all three points next week - which I suspect we won't - I really have no idea where our next victory will come from.

I certainly don't think I had unrealistic expectations to expect us to be better off than sitting on 7 points more than a quarter of the way into the season. Replicate that form throughout the whole campaign and we'll end with 22 points - Alloa last season had 21 by way of comparison. That'll see us finishing 10th. Comfortably. As it is if St Mirren win their next two games (Morton, then us) then we'll be bottom of the table, three points adrift of them with 1 victory in 19 games. Surely you didn't expect our form to be that poor?

The main issue for me though is that we don't actually look like we want to win a game. The Queen of the South match at home saw us wasting time to take a 0-0, the same against Hibs when we were 1-0 down and yesterday when it was 1-1. In fact the only time we really looked like we wanted to attack yesterday was after Cardle's goal.

Our form at the moment is miles off what's good enough. I doubt anyone on here has expectations much beyond 8th position - I certainly don't - but with 1 win in 18, a manager who flicks out the same excuses week after week after week, a team who appear to be set out to play for a draw, and an away record that has been horrific for a year I really can't see how you are remaining so positive - fair play for it...I think.

Our problems have been evident under Aitken since before this stage last season. I just think a lot of folk (myself included) turned a blind eye to them, especially when Christian Nade came in and, effectively, kept us up with some unbelievable form. 

I don't want it to see as if I'm desperately trying to get on Stevie's case here, because I'm really not, but present form has gone beyond the concerning stage, and seeing the team suffer from the same issues every single week for almost a year now is brutal.

Game of opinions, eh? I miss the time when I was always positive  

[lionel wickson]

In yesterday's programme notes, our Programme Editor was wondering why we played Ross County in a friendly on Saturday 20 October 1962. The answer, I'm fairly sure, is that there were 19 teams in Division 2 (as I think there was every year until Meadowbank were admitted, apart from 66-67 when Clydebank were added, before reverting back to 19 the following season when Third Lanark were killed off) and it was our turn to have a blank Saturday.  I also remember us playing Ross County in a floodlit friendly game on Friday 23 February 1968. Going from memory, I think we won 1-0 with Jim Lynas scoring. The following day Scotland played England at Hampden in the European Nations Cup qualifying group and there were no league games in Scotland.

[PRS]

6 hours ago, lionel wickson said:

In yesterday's programme notes, our Programme Editor was wondering why we played Ross County in a friendly on Saturday 20 October 1962. The answer, I'm fairly sure, is that there were 19 teams in Division 2 (as I think there was every year until Meadowbank were admitted, apart from 66-67 when Clydebank were added, before reverting back to 19 the following season when Third Lanark were killed off) and it was our turn to have a blank Saturday.  I also remember us playing Ross County in a floodlit friendly game on Friday 23 February 1968. Going from memory, I think we won 1-0 with Jim Lynas scoring. The following day Scotland played England at Hampden in the European Nations Cup qualifying group and there were no league games in Scotland.

Jim Lynas went on to play for Ross County and the mighty Caley. Wonder what happened to him after that?

[sonsanorak]

S08; it is all about opinions and interpretation with regard to things like shape of midfield and attacking intent. 

What cant be disputed is the facts re games won and that is a concern at the moment.

I think it reasonable to compare attendances and to draw from that budgets; form is temporary but being able to sell over 2000/4000/15000 tickets every other week puts clubs at an advantage over us when signing players.  Id accept stevenson will be on good money, but not pettigrew, stirling, todd or thompson in comparison.

Overall i'd have expected a few more points, but I dont expect us to be turning teams over regularly.

[Boghead ranter]

9 hours ago, Sonsteam of 08 said:

Div appears to have had to cull some posts, and my initial response (along with everything else posted today) seems to have been affected, so I'll go again thanks to the wonders of email and copy and paste.

I disagree with pretty much everything you've posted here. The gap between Celtic and Aberdeen is boosted by Champions League money and 3 guaranteed 60,000 sellouts, lets not compare the difference there and the difference between us and Dunfermline - a team who are an average Championship outfit. They are struggling and so are we, so if we can't beat either them, Ayr or St Mirren at home we are in trouble. Every season we've played at this level we've finished above a team with a bigger budget than us, a big budget doesn't guarantee results - look at Livingston last season for proof of that. 

Look at the players we have too, if you seriously think our budget is pennies then how do you explain the signings of guys like Martin, Barr, Stevo, Buchanan, J.Thomson, Stanton and Stirling - all of whom will be on decent enough money. If we were scrapping about with a bunch of low calibre jobbers I could get it, but we're not. We have some very, very good players.

I think that a run of one win in our last eighteen games has done more than enough to 'temper our expectations' without Aitken hitting out with the wee club, nae budget, top top teams, part-time training etc etc. He's been saying it since the Forfar game in July and it reeks of excuses for his own inability to set a team up to actually win a game. As Boghead Ranter said (before it was deleted) you could use any of his interviews after any game on SonsTV and I don't think we'd notice.

We have played a 4-5-1 or 4-4-1-1 in every single game under him this season, barring the shambles of a 4-4-2 that was the first half against Raith.  We've played nothing anywhere near as attacking as a 4-1-2-3, nor would I expect us to as 3 upfront would be suicidal. 

He played Sparky at CB when he had no other options, he's used Garry far too sparingly (or in the wrong role) far too often and Barr seems to play every single game he's fit for - despite the fact he's been very, very poor this season. Gallagher is no great loss as we have 3 players who are more than capable of playing in his position equally as well, if not better (J.Thomson, Sparky, Barr). Wright was always likely to be backup.

It took him 14 games to suss out what we suspected about Pettigrew after about 5 matches - he's not up to this level, and quite why we didn't offer Taggart a contract I'll never know. Stevo has had poor games, and gets dropped, but Thommo has played almost every minute of every game. He's came onto a game in the past few weeks, but prior to that was chronic for a decent period of time, yet was undroppable. I don't get that.

You don't think we're far off getting points (and by that I assume you mean wins)? I really, really do. Ayr United were meant to be our closest rivals - yet they utterly dominated us and played us off the park, Dunfermline were given far, far too much respect yesterday and (with a competent defender) would've taken all 3 points, whilst we failed to beat an utterly rancid St Mirren team. If we don't take all three points next week - which I suspect we won't - I really have no idea where our next victory will come from.

I certainly don't think I had unrealistic expectations to expect us to be better off than sitting on 7 points more than a quarter of the way into the season. Replicate that form throughout the whole campaign and we'll end with 22 points - Alloa last season had 21 by way of comparison. That'll see us finishing 10th. Comfortably. As it is if St Mirren win their next two games (Morton, then us) then we'll be bottom of the table, three points adrift of them with 1 victory in 19 games. Surely you didn't expect our form to be that poor?

The main issue for me though is that we don't actually look like we want to win a game. The Queen of the South match at home saw us wasting time to take a 0-0, the same against Hibs when we were 1-0 down and yesterday when it was 1-1. In fact the only time we really looked like we wanted to attack yesterday was after Cardle's goal.

Our form at the moment is miles off what's good enough. I doubt anyone on here has expectations much beyond 8th position - I certainly don't - but with 1 win in 18, a manager who flicks out the same excuses week after week after week, a team who appear to be set out to play for a draw, and an away record that has been horrific for a year I really can't see how you are remaining so positive - fair play for it...I think.

Our problems have been evident under Aitken since before this stage last season. I just think a lot of folk (myself included) turned a blind eye to them, especially when Christian Nade came in and, effectively, kept us up with some unbelievable form. 

I don't want it to see as if I'm desperately trying to get on Stevie's case here, because I'm really not, but present form has gone beyond the concerning stage, and seeing the team suffer from the same issues every single week for almost a year now is brutal.

Game of opinions, eh? I miss the time when I was always positive  

I also raised the point re "tempering expectations" and asked - is it too much to expect that the team play attacking football BEFORE the game looks lost?  Is it too much to expect that the manager actually displays the ability to vary tactics, either during the game based on how it is going, or per game, depending on the opposition being faced?

 

[The Toun Clock]

On ‎29‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 20:55, Scary Bear said:

 

 

I was hoping we'd have Bobby Barr fit. If he was I'd be confident of a 'Falkirk away' type performance at EEP, against a surely low on confidence Pars. As it is, I can see a rerun of that shite I watched this evening, but I'm still fairly confident of a win.

 

What's up with Barr Scary Bear?

[The Moonster]

On 29/10/2016 at 18:50, O'Kelly Isley III said:

I don't disagree with the above Moonster but please allow some of us a little smirk, as it doesn't seem too long ago that you were on here berating the peddlers of 'doom and gloom'   The shortcomings have been evident since the early days of this season, and we may just have to accept that the rollercoaster car marked DFC is now pointed firmly downwards.

Facts are chiels that winna ding, as Lee Mair might have written.

My reply seems to have disappeared so I'll try and remember it as best I can. I'll allow you a smirk, but I don't think anything I've said earlier in the season goes against what I've said here (I also think berating is a strong word, but I'll accept it ). There was folk who had us doomed after the League Cup, I felt that was a bit reactionary, especially given our usual poor form early season. But with more than a quarter of the season gone and 1 win to our name, with a team looking devoid of ideas suggests that there are bigger problems here. I'm happy to admit that the way events have gone would show me as being wrong earlier in the season, but I don't think we can call a certain amount of knicker wetting as some sort of clairvoyance. 

[mikedafc]

Disappointed having got 2-1 up we didn't see game out, we need Fordyce in middle of defence as we don't have that commending leader that would have dealt with the type of ball that lead to Dumbarton second goal

[D.A.F.C]

First goal, just basic mistake. When heading a ball get your body behind it. Second goal, what on earth was Martin doing chasing the boy miles out wide? I wouldn't blame Talbot really, he was wrong side but covering for Martin's position. Centre halfs shouldn't be running so far out of position like that.

[Rovers1992/1993]

What's up with Barr Scary Bear?

Scott Shepherd sent him into next week in our 4-2 win against Falkirk 2 weeks ago. He's out for between 4 and 8 weeks!