Amateur as good as Junior ??

[Ivo den Bieman]

Interesting stuff. I guess it would take a community decision and years of funding applications before Saints would have a stadium and set up that would be ready for the LL. Thanks also for your points about Wigtown- I guess it is hard to see how a club from a town with aroundonly 1,000 folk could compete on a national level without some sort of sugar daddy (not really desirable) or council-grant atracting community club status. After Annan got in in 2008 it probably is saturation level for SPFL representation in D&G anyway; as you say most of the squads of these clubs are Glasgow or Central belt based.

It's interesting to see Linlithgow mentioned and worth keeping a close eye on in the next couple of seasons. A big junior club like them making the transition and trying to progress really would start the process of change / integration in earnest.

[Talbot Bing]

As far as I know BSC are run by Kenny Moyes (David's brother) and the BSC model has a lot of support within the SFA.

I'll be clear; as I said (in a rather tired state) last night I'd like to see a full and integrated pyramid below the level fo the Scottish championship incorporating all current levels down to interested amateurs. The theoretical progression from public park football to the professional national league set-up should be there. There is no reasonable "exception" rule based on geography IMO.

Moving a bit more back on topic I'd love to see a club like Oban Saints progress up the leagues; if the will, opportunity and pathway is there for them to follow. The trouble is at present that we are nowhere near finding that pathway and the tiny crack in the otherwise walled-off senior league offers a pace of change that is simply too slow for many and does not provide enough of an incentive to make the effort in the first case. For many of the top junior sides a crowd of 1500 for a local derby or around 350 for the visit of Albion Rovers is a no-brainer. Why would you make that step?

Moreover, as Edinburgh City are finding out, League Two is poor but still- at the moment- seemingly beyond the capabilities of the back-to-back Lowland League champions.

 

What is so different about the BSC Model to other clubs like Beith or Linlithgow ?

From what i see, They don't have a fanbase and share facilities with Maryhill FC.

[Ivo den Bieman]

I don't see a huge amount of difference other than in individual club histories, and the well-connected Mr. Moyes.

Their lack of fanbase beyond players families and friends and lack of permanent base is, as far as the LL and SFA are concerned, neither here nor there. See also Edusport Academy and Cumbernauld Colts who seem to be trying to grow club franchises through youth teams- rather than investing in a fan-attracting first team before the youth set up.

FWIW I doubt any of these three teams will challenge seriously for league membership in the next decade. They do however provide a good standard of opposition and make a contribution to their respective leagues as well as providing a focused opportunity for young players to grow and develop.

Honestly I can't see the harm here.

[Burnie_man]

2 hours ago, drs said:

I've been informed that the new committee at Linlithgow are looking to make the step to the Lowland League. They want to "progress in Scottish football rather than stick with the status quo" is what I've been told.

If true (and I know HTG's opinion is broadly similar), it would be interesting to see what happens as they cannot simply walk into the LL, the only route open to them is promotion via the EoSFL which as we know is in a pretty shaky state.

That said, it would certainly shake things up if they left the SJFA, although a significant percentage of their fan base may not agree with the move.

[drs]

47 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

If true (and I know HTG's opinion is broadly similar), it would be interesting to see what happens as they cannot simply walk into the LL, the only route open to them is promotion via the EoSFL which as we know is in a pretty shaky state.

That said, it would certainly shake things up if they left the SJFA, although a significant percentage of their fan base may not agree with the move.

The person who told me has been very reliable about what has been happening off the field at Prestonfield over the past few years - I have no reason to doubt them, it certainly fits with why the facilities are being upgraded rather than money being put into the playing side.

[cmontheloknow]

2 hours ago, Talbot Bing said:

 

What is so different about the BSC Model to other clubs like Beith or Linlithgow ?

From what i see, They don't have a fanbase and share facilities with Maryhill FC.

You're a few months out of date on that - Maryhill's pitch wasn't up to two teams on it so they're now groundsharing at Alloa.

[Hillonearth]

12 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

You're a few months out of date on that - Maryhill's pitch wasn't up to two teams on it so they're now groundsharing at Alloa.

There was a lot of stuff going on in the background which I'm sure will eventually come out. The pitch wasn't one of them.

[cmontheloknow]

3 minutes ago, Hillonearth said:

There was a lot of stuff going on in the background which I'm sure will eventually come out. The pitch wasn't one of them.

Ok cool, had seen such things as this:

 

Quote

 

Following major problems last season when BSC Glasgow (Lowland League) shared the facility for their home games, extensive pitch renovation work has been taking place since last month.

Speaking exclusively to thejuniors.info Jim revealed: “We lost at least six home games last season due to water on the park, which wasn’t clearing. “The faraway half of the park as you come in at the gate was the worst area. Work started on June 4, and includes installing new drains, fertilising the park, and reseeding all over the place. “It should be in great condition for the Queen’s Park game at the end of the month. The match will be a good test for us.”

 

http://www.thejuniors.info/2016/07/new-look-lochburn-ready-queens-park-visit/

 

And this:

Although the club are reluctant to move from Glasgow, the welcome we were given at Alloa, coupled with the first class facilities on offer, made the decision easier to make. We would like to thank Alloa FC for this opportunity, and we look forward to forging closer links with them.

“It should also be noted that the move will in no way distract us from our long term goal of having our own facility in Glasgow, and we continue to work towards that end.

“The move should enable the club to have a sustained run of games during the season, something that we have not been able to have in the last two seasons.

“However we recognise the difficulty that Maryhill FC have had in keeping their pitch playable, in the face of some extreme wet weather in the last 2 years, and we would like to thank them for their hospitality and efforts over this period.”

http://videocelts.com/2016/08/blogs/younghoops/two-more-head-out-on-loan/

 

 

 

[cmontheloknow]

19 hours ago, Sx Drugz N Martin Jol said:

 

Why don't they? They older or younger guys?

Joe Gold already has but is now early 30s, as far as I know he last played junior in 2009-10 at Cumnock and moved onto Hurlford Thistle. He was with Meadow at their p£ak and was with Killie til 19 where he won the Scottish Youth Cup.

Michael Mullen got plucked from the amateurs (Newmilns) to sign for QOS in 1st Division and went on to play for Stranraer and Stirling Albion. All in all he made 145 apps in the SFL scoring 36 goals. He left Stirling to go to Hurlford Thistle and as far as I know has never played Junior. He's now 32.

Keir Knapp hasn't played Junior either, has been playing amateur for years, with Galston United, Hurlford Thistle and now Shortlees. Not sure how old he is exactly but is around 27/28. He was a Scottish amateur internationalist in 2010-11 and apparently was with Hibs a youngster.

 

 

[Hillonearth]

25 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

Ok cool, had seen such things as this:

 

 

And this:

 

 

It turned out back in the day when the drains were being laid, some bright spark had infilled one of the main ones with sand which had gradually clogged it up, hence our problems in recent years! 

Hadn't seen the second quote. They were aware of this summer's plans; as for the narrative that their departure was pitch related I can only say it doesn't tally with our perception of events...

[cmontheloknow]

3 minutes ago, Hillonearth said:

It turned out back in the day when the drains were being laid, some bright spark had infilled one of the main ones with sand which had gradually clogged it up, hence our problems in recent years! 

Hadn't seen the second quote. They were aware of this summer's plans; as for the narrative that their departure was pitch related I can only say it doesn't tally with our perception of events...

Water under the bridge ultimately, or water pooling in a goalmouth even!

[whitburn exile]

there can be no definitive answer to this one way or the other. What does need to be sorted as the attitude of many fans at all levels about other levels, th is also goes for those who run the juniors. There does need to be a pyramid sorted once and for all and yes it should be rationalised like down here in England. Within a short distance of my house I have 3 non league teams the biggest being Lincoln City who for many years have flitered with the bottom of the "senior" leagues. I can then go do Lincoln Utd who ground wise would be similar to Talbot, Linlithgow Rose then Lincoln Moorland Railway FC who are like a lot of junior clubs facility wise. The point is they all have the potential to climb the leagues or go down something which is missing in Scotland. Lincoln City are a community club where kids get free entry with am adult paying a discounted rate of £10 something which I am doing with my son. They help out youth teams host a schools competition etc as do the other non league clubs in Lincolnshire such as Grimsby and Scunthorpe. At the end of the day if Scottish football doesn't Chang then it will fall on its arse. The time to change is now.

[Talbot Bing]

You're a few months out of date on that - Maryhill's pitch wasn't up to two teams on it so they're now groundsharing at Alloa.

Appreciate that my friend [emoji106]

[Sx Drugz N Martin Jol]

Joe Gold already has but is now early 30s, as far as I know he last played junior in 2009-10 at Cumnock and moved onto Hurlford Thistle. He was with Meadow at their p£ak and was with Killie til 19 where he won the Scottish Youth Cup.

Michael Mullen got plucked from the amateurs (Newmilns) to sign for QOS in 1st Division and went on to play for Stranraer and Stirling Albion. All in all he made 145 apps in the SFL scoring 36 goals. He left Stirling to go to Hurlford Thistle and as far as I know has never played Junior. He's now 32.

Keir Knapp hasn't played Junior either, has been playing amateur for years, with Galston United, Hurlford Thistle and now Shortlees. Not sure how old he is exactly but is around 27/28. He was a Scottish amateur internationalist in 2010-11 and apparently was with Hibs a youngster.

 

So do why do they play amateur? Is it due to work commitments?

All seem to be more than capable of playing at a better standard, can understand the boys in early 30s not doing so but the younger lad? Or does he have mates in the team.
 

[KLadeside]

On Monday, October 24, 2016 at 22:00, Sx Drugz N Martin Jol said:

 

Why don't they? They older or younger guys?

 

Shortlees have players that could play top level junior easily in Mullen Knapp & Gold and i would say hurlford have players who could play the same level.

 

 

im sure Keir Knapp played at talbot when he was younger although i could be wrong.

michael mullen is just a cracking striker.

knapp and joe gold are probably the 2 best centre mids in the amateur game.

[plug mac]

There's a gulf as is junior to senior without doubt

[cmontheloknow]

Took in the Oban Saints vs. EKFC Amateurs match at Glencruitten today. Both teams tried to keep the ball on the deck, was great to see Brian Mackay, ex Pollok, upfront for Saints. Saints won 3-0, all goals coming in the last half hour or so. One of the better crowds I've seen at Glencruitten, it grew throughout the game to number about 50, with more watching from their cars. 

 

[Talbot Bing]

Took in the Oban Saints vs. EKFC Amateurs match at Glencruitten today. Both teams tried to keep the ball on the deck, was great to see Brian Mackay, ex Pollok, upfront for Saints. Saints won 3-0, all goals coming in the last half hour or so. One of the better crowds I've seen at Glencruitten, it grew throughout the game to number about 50, with more watching from their cars. 







 

Great setting and view for a game of football

[cmontheloknow]

1 minute ago, Talbot Bing said:

 

Great setting and view for a game of football

Yeah it's a shame more folk don't go along as it's good entertainment and as noted up the thread, because of the lack of competition for players in the area, a pretty good standard. MacKay's only 28 and would still get a game for his previous junior sides (Lok and Rob Roy) I'm sure.

[Sx Drugz N Martin Jol]

So these players have been there and played junior? Just personally think all players should play at the highest possible level they can. Can understand why older players take a step down.