Strict Liability

[topcat(The most tip top)]

If this came in you just know that Sevco (and probably Celtic) fans would claim that folk doing shit were actually opposition fans doing it to try and tarnish their club.

The even more wretched thing is that they might, sometimes, even be right

[Rugster]

UEFA have fined Celtic 10,000 euros for their Palestinian flag "display".

[shiltrum]

Strict Liability sounds good but it has to be implemented properly against everyone there will be groups of supporters who just don't give a S*** and continue on regardless. I also have doubts about the criteria the SFA would use to decide the penalty to be imposed. We all know there are issues that have been accepted for years and CONVENIENTLY rubbered IF Strict Liability is the way forward then that should include the authority who will set the punishment. The very authority who have ignored problems which should have been addressed years ago.

[ayrmad]

I thought clubs in Scotland had already been punished for fan misbehaviour domestically.

[Dunning1874]

18 hours ago, ICTChris said:

Following the SFA dropping charges regarding the crowd trouble at the Scottish cup final there's going to be a lot of talk about strict liability, the framework that allows for governing bodies to hold clubs directly accountable for their fans behaviour.  UEFA use this model and have fined Celtic several times for their fans behaviour during European ties.

What do people think about this model for Scottish football?  I can see the attraction of it but I also think that fundamentally it's kind of unfair.  If I turn up to a Caley game and scream racist abuse or punch someone, what could the club have done to prevent it?  If I break a law then I can be arrested, charged and tried.  The club can ban me from the ground if they see fit.  If all protections are in place then what more can be done?

On the other hand, we've seen clubs duck sorted out real problems in their support for a long time and maybe this would give the impetuous to do so.  

Thoughts?  Please use this thread for discussing the idea of strict liability and we can keep all the pointing, laughing and seething-Rangers-ing to the cup final thread. 

That's the thing, you'd think that one fan shouting racist or sectarian abuse wouldn't lead to a punishment for the club, as clubs genuinely have no power to stop one lone moron shouting something. If however it was a whole stand or at least a significant number singing something bigoted, then it would lead to a punishment.

The grey area with punishing clubs for the actions of one fan emerges with acts of violence - it only takes one moron to jump a barrier and throw a punch at an opposition player or to smash a seat and lob it at opposing fans, but acts like that would obviously lead to punishment. Perhaps where it's only one fan it's fair to punish the club if it's their own home game - ie when they're responsible for the stewards preventing someone entering the pitch, getting hold of something they can throw and do damage with - but not away games or neutral venues? That in itself seems a bit of a cop-out though, allowing, for example, Rangers to get away with a fan throwing a seat at Pittodrie when something like that could do real damage.

[bennett]

1 hour ago, DA Baracus said:

If this came in you just know that Sevco (and probably Celtic) fans would claim that folk doing shit were actually opposition fans doing it to try and tarnish their club.

That has happened before when a Celtic fan interrupted our game against Maccabi Haifa resulting in a large fine for Rangers.

 

 

 

 

[The DA]

30 minutes ago, bennett said:

That has happened before when a Celtic fan interrupted our game against Maccabi Haifa resulting in a large fine for Rangers.

 

I think you've spelled 'Chelsea' wrong.

[thisGRAEME]

52 minutes ago, bennett said:

That has happened before when a Celtic fan interrupted our game against Maccabi Haifa resulting in a large fine for Rangers.

You were fined £4k, and you'd just fucked £2,000,000 on Sebo, so lets not be pleading poverty.

[bennett]

22 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

You were fined £4k, and you'd just fucked £2,000,000 on Sebo, so lets not be pleading poverty.

 

Maybe but you appear t be missing the point of this thread.

[killienick]

7 minutes ago, bennett said:

 

Maybe but you appear t be missing the point of this thread.

You appear to be missing an o in that sentence.

[bennett]

1 minute ago, killienick said:

You appear to be missing an o in that sentence.

O dear.

[Bobby Skidmarks]

O dear.

Oh dear.

[Monkey Tennis]

8 hours ago, forameus said:

 

Would they though?  I imagine if you're thick enough to be doing something bad enough that the club would get punished, you're unlikely to really care too much.  Or, perhaps worse, you'll see it as some kind of persecution complex and come back with something worse.  That's the problem with something like this for me, it's unlikely to stop the worst ones in my opinion.

I don't agree with this view.

There is a breed of supporter in this country who is a decent enough bloke day to day, but enjoys venting publicly about "****** b*****ds" and the like if he thinks he's in an environment which seems to permit it.

It's his behaviour that needs to change and which Strict Liability would play a role in modifying.

[Monkey Tennis]

5 hours ago, DA Baracus said:

If this came in you just know that Sevco (and probably Celtic) fans would claim that folk doing shit were actually opposition fans doing it to try and tarnish their club.

So what?

They do that anyway?

[Dunning1874]

3 hours ago, bennett said:

 

Maybe but you appear t be missing the point of this thread.

Yes, but you called it a 'large fine'. That is evidently bollocks.

[bennett]

1 hour ago, Dunning1874 said:

Yes, but you called it a 'large fine'. That is evidently bollocks.

Might not be much to you but it's a large sum to me.

[HibeeJibee]

Haven't read the thread - but clubs will do their best to resist strict liability as they think it will end-up coming down harder on minor incidents at smaller clubs so the authorities can be "seen to be doing something", while tip-toeing around controversial situations.

As has been observed previously - after FOCUS was introduced following the "Game of Shame", they attended about as many Ayr and Falkirk games as they did matches with OF.

[dogmc]

Haven't read the thread - but clubs will do their best to resist strict liability as they think it will end-up coming down harder on minor incidents at smaller clubs so the authorities can be "seen to be doing something", while tip-toeing around controversial situations.

As has been observed previously - after FOCUS was introduced following the "Game of Shame", they attended about as many Ayr and Falkirk games as they did matches with OF.

This.....everyone but the of would be targeted so as to not to offend their fans and continue the myth that everyone is to blame rather than the two clearest culprits.

[sjc]

On 9/30/2016 at 05:30, StandFree03 said:

You must be utterly appalled at the vast sums of money your club is wasting on utter dross then.

Come on StandFree03, Bennetts already told us all on another thread that Sevcos squad is made up from the "bargain basement".....

[Dee Man]

On 29/09/2016 at 01:42, ICTChris said:

Following the SFA dropping charges regarding the crowd trouble at the Scottish cup final there's going to be a lot of talk about strict liability, the framework that allows for governing bodies to hold clubs directly accountable for their fans behaviour.  UEFA use this model and have fined Celtic several times for their fans behaviour during European ties.

What do people think about this model for Scottish football?  I can see the attraction of it but I also think that fundamentally it's kind of unfair.  If I turn up to a Caley game and scream racist abuse or punch someone, what could the club have done to prevent it?  If I break a law then I can be arrested, charged and tried.  The club can ban me from the ground if they see fit.  If all protections are in place then what more can be done?

On the other hand, we've seen clubs duck sorted out real problems in their support for a long time and maybe this would give the impetuous to do so.  

Thoughts?  Please use this thread for discussing the idea of strict liability and we can keep all the pointing, laughing and seething-Rangers-ing to the cup final thread. 

Violent racist found.