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John Lambies Doos

Oh Kez!!!

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Labours problems go way way beyond kez. They even predate her becoming an msp, so she might as well be the leader.



Scottish Labour just aren't speaking to anyone. The only people who still vote for them are a small band of loyalists and that increasingly small group of unionists who are left of centre but strongly unionist to the point of refusing to vote for a nationalist left-wing party. They've been well behind the game for far too long. They thought that when they lost the election to the SNP in 2007 that it was a mistake and the electorate would soon realise it and come back. They've now become marginalised and are talking to fewer and fewer people.

Even amongst fairly committed Labour voters there are few who are passionate about voting for the Scottish party. Moderates are unhappy with Labour generally and even though Kez and her crew aren't Corbynistas, Jeremy is leader of the party as a whole, meanwhile Corbynistas are unhappy with Kezia because she isn't supportive of the U.K. Leader. So not only are Scottish Labour taking to basically no-one, the few they are taking to are still unsold on the project.

It doesn't help that Kezia Dugdale isn't a great leader or done much to show she has great aptitude as a politician, nor that Labour's other MSPs aren't any better. They've ended up in a situation where they've massively miscalculated already, they are pushing on without any clear or decent strategy, and there is a lack of talent or charisma in the party.

The first thing they need to ask themselves is 'why should people vote for us.' And if they can't come up with an answer something is wrong, and they need to do everything possible to give an answer to that question. Something they are completely failing to do. I'm no fan of Corbyn but at least he can answer that, Kezia cannot.

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There isn't an answer to that question,  anybody in Scotland who used to vote labour will now vote snp except hardcore British nationalists,  you get the same thing but more competent and actually putting scotlands needs first unlike labour.   Scotland doesn't need labour anymore,  there's no role for it.

Edited by Peppino Impastato

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They probably want left wing policies then,  no point voting labour. 


Labour is now the most Left wing major political party in the UK.Most people are in the SNP camp for Indy not left wing policies.

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8 minutes ago, Loondave1 said:


Labour is now the most Left wing major political party in the UK.Most people are in the SNP camp for Indy not left wing policies.

Keep going the way they're going and they won't be a major political party in Scotland for long. They're probably just clinging on to that tag at the moment.

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Keep going the way they're going and they won't be a major political party in Scotland for long. They're probably just clinging on to that tag at the moment.


I agree.Ive met Kez in the past and she came across quite well and was doing a lot of good stuff re loansharks and credit unions.However she comes across woefully as leader.To keen to be liked and cringey at times.The Labour party in Scotland needs somebody with a bit of genuine anger about the current situation instead of waiting for the SNP to drop some support.That said i do reckon the Nats will have to stumble a bit for any real revival.

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1 hour ago, Loondave1 said:


I agree.Ive met Kez in the past and she came across quite well and was doing a lot of good stuff re loansharks and credit unions.However she comes across woefully as leader.To keen to be liked and cringey at times.The Labour party in Scotland needs somebody with a bit of genuine anger about the current situation instead of waiting for the SNP to drop some support.That said i do reckon the Nats will have to stumble a bit for any real revival.

Hasn't that already been tried when Irn Bru boy came up to pound the SNP into the dirt?

Policy wise it doesn't matter one jot what position they take, the've worn everyone's patience with their constant flip flopping. Left, centre or right, they won't be trusted. The Tories have already got the Union Jack bedsheet demographic tied up, so nothing to gain there.

Scottish Labour are finished, just give up.

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Labour in Scotland's strategy seems to be wait till everyone gets fed up with the SNP and stops voting for them and then everyone will go back to voting Labour - just like the old days

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Hasn't that already been tried when Irn Bru boy came up to pound the SNP into the dirt?

Policy wise it doesn't matter one jot what position they take, the've worn everyone's patience with their constant flip flopping. Left, centre or right, they won't be trusted. The Tories have already got the Union Jack bedsheet demographic tied up, so nothing to gain there.

Scottish Labour are finished, just give up.

Im not talking about that kind of anger or the SNP being the target, just a bit of attitude to make it relevant.How im not sure but i still think a bit of tarnish will be required on the SNP bandwagon.I don't know the answer but the Nats harbour too many roasters for me and thin gruel in left wing policies so that's not an option for me.

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Labour in Scotland's strategy seems to be wait till everyone gets fed up with the SNP and stops voting for them and then everyone will go back to voting Labour - just like the old days


I would agree . That's why it needs to reinvent itself.There will be a drop off on SNP votes at some point . That's almost inevitable from such a high watermark but you need policies as well to take advantage.Things will never be the same but Scotland needs opposition other than the Tories.Im no Tory and completely uncomfortable with quite a lot of SNP voters attitudes.Nationalism is just not for me even cozy "civic nationalism".

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Scottish Labour just aren't speaking to anyone. The only people who still vote for them are a small band of loyalists and that increasingly small group of unionists who are left of centre but strongly unionist to the point of refusing to vote for a nationalist left-wing party. They've been well behind the game for far too long. They thought that when they lost the election to the SNP in 2007 that it was a mistake and the electorate would soon realise it and come back. They've now become marginalised and are talking to fewer and fewer people.

Even amongst fairly committed Labour voters there are few who are passionate about voting for the Scottish party. Moderates are unhappy with Labour generally and even though Kez and her crew aren't Corbynistas, Jeremy is leader of the party as a whole, meanwhile Corbynistas are unhappy with Kezia because she isn't supportive of the U.K. Leader. So not only are Scottish Labour taking to basically no-one, the few they are taking to are still unsold on the project.

It doesn't help that Kezia Dugdale isn't a great leader or done much to show she has great aptitude as a politician, nor that Labour's other MSPs aren't any better. They've ended up in a situation where they've massively miscalculated already, they are pushing on without any clear or decent strategy, and there is a lack of talent or charisma in the party.

The first thing they need to ask themselves is 'why should people vote for us.' And if they can't come up with an answer something is wrong, and they need to do everything possible to give an answer to that question. Something they are completely failing to do. I'm no fan of Corbyn but at least he can answer that, Kezia cannot.

Agree totally.

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4 hours ago, Loondave1 said:


I agree.Ive met Kez in the past and she came across quite well and was doing a lot of good stuff re loansharks and credit unions.However she comes across woefully as leader.To keen to be liked and cringey at times.The Labour party in Scotland needs somebody with a bit of genuine anger about the current situation instead of waiting for the SNP to drop some support.That said i do reckon the Nats will have to stumble a bit for any real revival.

I'm not one for the 'all politicians are b*****ds without exception' outlook. I'm sure a lot of politicians I don't agree with / don't like / don't think are up to much would come across pretty well if I could sit down and chat to them about stuff. I remember an interview with Kez by Owen Jones where I thought she was coming across quite well and was talking about how far gay rights had come in Scotland but you could actually see her mentally check herself after saying something positive and then reminding herself she had to say how Scotland was actually still a pretty homophobic country and 'what about the SNP and Brian Souter'. You could tell even Jones was cringing a bit for her and that's just not the kind of stuff that's going to win people back.

Labour's problems are easy to pinpoint but very difficult to solve. Again, it's easy to say but a bit more positivity is required. Labour have to accept that the majority of the population just don't share their view that the SNP are this sneaky talk-left-act-right, nationalistic tub-thumping bunch of incompetents who are free-wheeling in government. Attacks like that work when people see bit of reality in them.

The Tories have the 'keep things the way they are' crowd wrapped up, Labour now really need to compete with the idea of independence to be relevant, not just rubbish it. If independence is so bad, up the SNP's offer. don't just aim to come across as well-intentioned caretakers who's biggest ambition is to fiddle around in the margins. The time fo that being good enough is over.

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Seems reasonable.Its about defining a new roll and direction so i agree.Ill just go look out your individual trifle again..

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FWIW I believe a Scottish Labour, could be resurgent in an independent Scotland with SNP moving to the right. Occupy a truly centre left position, and the votes, members and talented politicians will come flooding back. Would lead to effective opposition whoever occupies Holyrood with the added bonus of wiping out the Tories forever more. Win win win. Labour just need the balls to go for independence.

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FWIW I believe a Scottish Labour, could be resurgent in an independent Scotland with SNP moving to the right. Occupy a truly centre left position, and the votes, members and talented politicians will come flooding back. Would lead to effective opposition whoever occupies Holyrood with the added bonus of wiping out the Tories forever more. Win win win. Labour just need the balls to go for independence.


I kind of agree but think independence now would be a fiscal fiasco.I also think the scenario of an independent Scotland is farther away than 2014.Interesting though with some probably valid points.

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36 minutes ago, DublinMagyar said:

FWIW I believe a Scottish Labour, could be resurgent in an independent Scotland with SNP moving to the right. Occupy a truly centre left position, and the votes, members and talented politicians will come flooding back. Would lead to effective opposition whoever occupies Holyrood with the added bonus of wiping out the Tories forever more. Win win win. Labour just need the balls to go for independence.

Scottish Labour will be not be able to escape the tarnish of Corbyn's hard left brand. When prominent and able Labour MPs are deselected by Momentum's Marxist activists, Labour will implode.
 

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Scottish Labour will be not be able to escape the tarnish of Corbyn's hard left brand. When prominent and able Labour MPs are deselected by Momentum's Marxist activists, Labour will implode.
 


Scottish Labour. Independent Scotland. You need anymore help?

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3 minutes ago, DublinMagyar said:


Scottish Labour. Independent Scotland. You need anymore help?

So how can you can you justify your claim that the SNP will move to the right after independence?

If Labour implodes under Corbyn, the SNP will just have Tories to oppose them.

 

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Scottish Labour will be not be able to escape the tarnish of Corbyn's hard left brand. When prominent and able Labour MPs are deselected by Momentum's Marxist activists, Labour will implode.
 


And yet Scottish people are constantly saying Labour weren't Left enough and had deserted them.

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So how can you can you justify your claim that the SNP will move to the right after independence?

If Labour implodes under Corbyn, the SNP will just have Tories to oppose them.

 


Double whoosh

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