ICTChris Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 Counterfactual history is when you take a moment in history and imagine how things would've turned out if things had been different. It's not really analytical or academic when it comes to history but it's good fun and perfect for application to football. It popped into my head because I just turned on Alloa v Celtic and saw Jim Goodwin playing. Now, Goodwin is a reviled figure due to playing on the edge of the rules but he was a very effective player for St MIrren and I think he would've been an excellent signing for St Mirren. In particular, I think that Terry Butcher and Maurice Malpas would have relished having a player and a character like Goodwin in their squad at Hibs and probably would've used him to stave off the catastrophic collapse that saw Hibs relegated. However, Goodwin's a veteran and would fade so it's doubtful that, beyond avoiding the drop, Hibs would be able to use him to build a decent side in the future and Butcher and Malpas' fate would only be delayed. Also, with no relegation of Hibs, Hibs would likely still be waiting for a cup win and would merely be treading water in the SPL. What are your favourite 'what ifs' in Scottish football, your counterfactual history stories, your 'Sliding Doors' moments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Man Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 4 minutes ago, ICTChris said: Counterfactual history is when you take a moment in history and imagine how things would've turned out if things had been different. It's not really analytical or academic when it comes to history but it's good fun and perfect for application to football. It popped into my head because I just turned on Alloa v Celtic and saw Jim Goodwin playing. Now, Goodwin is a reviled figure due to playing on the edge of the rules but he was a very effective player for St MIrren and I think he would've been an excellent signing for St Mirren. In particular, I think that Terry Butcher and Maurice Malpas would have relished having a player and a character like Goodwin in their squad at Hibs and probably would've used him to stave off the catastrophic collapse that saw Hibs relegated. However, Goodwin's a veteran and would fade so it's doubtful that, beyond avoiding the drop, Hibs would be able to use him to build a decent side in the future and Butcher and Malpas' fate would only be delayed. Also, with no relegation of Hibs, Hibs would likely still be waiting for a cup win and would merely be treading water in the SPL. What are your favourite 'what ifs' in Scottish football, your counterfactual history stories, your 'Sliding Doors' moments? Well that's a very diplomatic way of saying he was a dirty b*****d. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted September 21, 2016 Author Share Posted September 21, 2016 Just now, Dee Man said: Well that's a very diplomatic way of saying he was a dirty b*****d. I'm renowned for my diplomacy, you jute-eating jam-shagging c**t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Saintee Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 What if Neil Simpson hadn't murdered promising footballer Ian "Wee Durranty" Durrant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussellAnderson Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 Scotland World Cup win in 94. Simmie responsible for 25 years of shite Scottish football. If Aberdeen hadn't bottled the title in 91 or whenever it was. No nine in a row, pressure on a new Walter Smith and Aberdeen's participation in the new Champions League? Scottish fitba could have been oh so very different. Alas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CityDave Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 A good one for both Inverness Caley Thistle and Celtic fans, what Henrik Larsson had not had his leg broken in the UEFA cup tie vs Lyon, would there have been no Supercaleygobalistic 3-1 for ICT at Celtic Park as well as no Martin O'Neill as manager the next season, Barnes and the dream team would still be there? Therefore no Neil Lennon or a UEFA cup final in 2003. Not saying Celtic would have been less successful, it just would have turned out differently. I wonder how that would have worked out for us, our new ground was sinking the club at the time, administration was a real possibility. Maybe that win over Celtic inspired that trust fund, those investors and more local businesses to come on board to ensure the club's survival? Would the club still be here if that hadn't happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammer Jag Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 What if Rangers survived? What if Jock Stein told the police? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellbhoy Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 What if Hearts had won the title back in 1986? I was in Barshaw park when the Celtic fans were heading back to Glasgow beeping their car horns and scarves hanging from their car windows. I genuinely thought Hearts had the title in the bag that day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Saintee Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 What if Fergus "Boo" McCann hadn't saved Celtic.........would we have Celtco? What if Henrik Larsson didn't cure depression? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
accies1874 Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 What if Alex Neil didn't leave Accies? I genuinely think we could've got to Europe that season, and I can't see us ever reaching those heights again. What if Scotland won in Georgia in 2007? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 What if the 4 Angus clubs had merged a few years back? Can only imagine they's be dominating European football and providing the backbone of the, newly-crowned champions of Europe, Scotland team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 Just now, Gordon EF said: What if the 4 Angus clubs had merged a few years back? Can only imagine they's be dominating European football and providing the backbone of the, newly-crowned champions of Europe, Scotland team. You forgot to mention that their star striker Ronaldo would also be shagging wee Senga fae the Bervie Chipper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, WaffenThinMint said: You forgot to mention that their star striker Ronaldo would also be shagging wee Senga fae the Bervie Chipper. Messi would be up for signing as well I'd have thought. He'd be wee enough to get a go on that trampoline thing outside Pleasure Land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 One that always bugs me, certainly in recent times anyway is if we'd gone up to the championship the year we finished 2nd and Cowden/Dumbarton and Airdrie all went up because Rangers died. Alloa included 3 of 4 done very well. Anyways that's just Arbroath In Scotland.... Mahrez signing for Saints. Us beating Georgia twice, Rangers not dying. Last one in particular is just gold. They've just provided an absolutely unprecedented level of hilarity, who knew that pre match v Peterhead we would be treated to such a delightful 4 years and counting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thistle_do_nicely Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 On the theme of Rangers death, and trying to adopt a thematic approach rather than one isolated event; what if their record in Europe hadn't been absolute shit in the years leading up to liquidation? Would it have been enough to save them? If they hadn't fucked up against Kaunas, Malmo etc. in their CL and Europa League playoffs would the European money have been enough to see them merely go through administration, rather than liquidation? Suspect that they were always doomed once googly eyes got control off of David Murray no matter how much cash at hand and in the bank they had/debtors etc. but along the same lines, would Murray have done a runner had they managed to get through to the more lucrative stages of European competition rather than getting their arses handed to them by shit-tier sides/could they have found a buyer that wouldn't have shafted them over time and again? What if George Burley had been left in charge after his massive winning streak at the start of that season with Hearts, rather than being punted and shortly thereafter Gordon etc. were sold? Could Garry O'Connor have been a Scotland and Premiership regular had he not gone to Russia so young and ended up with so much cash at such a young age (think he was 22 when he left, old enough for some to know better but clearly not, with hindsight, oor Garry)? On another Rangers theme, what would have happened if every club refused them entry into the SPFL/SFL (as it was at the time?) and they disappeared a la Third Lanark or had to form a Junior side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 What if Kilmarnock got relegated instead of Hibs? Would they have come straight back up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgecutter Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 What would have happened had Aberdeen been relegated rather than saved by that embarrassment of an SPL stadium rule? Would there have been financial armageddon followed by Aberdeen City FC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweeperDee Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 What if Dundee won the Scottish cup in 2003? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Connolly Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 What if Judy Murray had been a football coach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 What if Hearts had won the title back in 1986? I was in Barshaw park when the Celtic fans were heading back to Glasgow beeping their car horns and scarves hanging from their car windows. I genuinely thought Hearts had the title in the bag that day. Probably not a huge effect on the other clubs involved that day in the longer term. Rangers had already begun the Souness revolution, we'd miss out on Europe whatever and Celtic wouldn't have suffered any lasting damage. Probably even more mental scarring for Hibs fans tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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