Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[Granny Danger]

Genuine question.  Can anyone on here explain what the deal is with the border and how it differs from the one the DUP was so firmly against?

I honestly can’t see any details of how exactly this will work.

 

[LongTimeLurker]

3 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Genuine question.  Can anyone on here explain what the deal is with the border and how it differs from the one the DUP was so firmly against?

I honestly can’t see any details of how exactly this will work.

Disappointed there was a solution that you can't turn into a turgid Nationalist vs Unionist thing? All that's changed is that May caved in and now is agreeing to what is effectively a soft Brexit because the policies that would have applied to NI to keep the border soft now apply across the UK, so the Irish Sea boundary is also soft as well now.

[Granny Danger]

2 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Disappointed there was a solution that you can't turn into a turgid Nationalist vs Unionist thing? All that's changed is that May caved in and now is agreeing to what is effectively a soft Brexit because the policies that would have applied to NI to keep the border soft now apply across the UK, so the Irish Sea boundary is also soft as well now.

I’m disappointed that you can’t respond without being a p***k.

Not surprised mind you.

[LongTimeLurker]

I'll take that as a yes. More cerebral SNP supporters already grasp that what is happening is very good news for them and that the prospects of the Yes side winning a future referendum have been significantly enhanced. I suggest you find what they are writing:

https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-lesson/

[John Lambies Doos]

Disappointed there was a solution that you can't turn into a turgid Nationalist vs Unionist thing? All that's changed is that May caved in and now is agreeing to what is effectively a soft Brexit because the policies that would have applied to NI to keep the border soft now apply across the UK, so the Irish Sea boundary is also soft as well now.

Still don't fully understand it though. So say you enter Eire from Cherbourg (person or goods); you then go through check in Roslare. Truck then crosses over into Newry and up to Belfast. Not EU so surely there needs to be some checks?
Otherwise the right wing sections of other EU countries will want this. All very confusing tbh. Really don't understand how there can't be a border somewhere ie Eire to NI or sea?

[LongTimeLurker]

16 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said:

Still don't fully understand it though. So say you enter Eire from Cherbourg (person or goods); you then go through check in Roslare. Truck then crosses over into Newry and up to Belfast. Not EU so surely there needs to be some checks?

They need to have a no customs tariff environment to make this fly through a Canada style free trade deal and the text would help keep policies aligned in an EEA type arrangement loose enough to keep all but the most extreme UKIP nutters happy in optics terms. Checks at Rosslare tie into the Common Travel Area and not being in Schengen, so no change there.

Edited December 8, 2017 by LongTimeLurker

[HTG]

The Irish border solution coupled with no UK mainland border for arrivals from the north by necessity means free movement of people and goods in and out of the UK from EU member states. That, aligned with ongoing ECJ jurisdiction and ongoing contribution to the EU budget suggests that after 15 months of "robust" negotiations,  the UK has achieved the square root of f**k all. 

That is good news - it saves another referendum on the final terms of exit (lol) because they'll be exactly the same as staying in it. 

Red white and blue Brexit right enough. Let the band strike up Jerusalem. 

[John Lambies Doos]

The Irish border solution coupled with no UK mainland border for arrivals from the north by necessity means free movement of people and goods in and out of the UK from EU member states. That, aligned with ongoing ECJ jurisdiction and ongoing contribution to the EU budget suggests that after 15 months of "robust" negotiations,  the UK has achieved the square root of f**k all. 
That is good news - it saves another referendum on the final terms of exit (lol) because they'll be exactly the same as staying in it. 
Red white and blue Brexit right enough. Let the band strike up Jerusalem. 

So basically the UK can't control it's borders and immigration?

[Granny Danger]

Having read more of the text and the interpretations, this not a bit of a fudge, it is a total fudge.

I don’t accept that it’s capitulation, I think the EU side has also backtracked.  They said they wanted clarity before moving to the second phase of negotiations; this isn’t clarity, this isn’t even close to clarity.

 

[zidane's child]

1 minute ago, Granny Danger said:

Having read more of the text and the interpretations, this not a bit of a fudge, it is a total fudge.

I don’t accept that it’s capitulation, I think the EU side has also backtracked.  They said they wanted clarity before moving to the second phase of negotiations; this isn’t clarity, this isn’t even close to clarity.

 

I don't know what the f**k it is!

Also, don't know if its true but The S*n have "We Win, EU Lose" on their front cover of the sh*trag

[LongTimeLurker]

 

30 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said:

So basically the UK can't control it's borders and immigration?

Not a lot changes from how things are now in many ways, beyond the probable eventual ability to apply a work visa regime onto newcomers from the EU as Canada is still able to do under its free trade deal. For the more moderate soft Brexit type leavers that was important as it means no future huge influx from the continent similar to the wave of Polish workers after eastward expansion. That's why there isn't a huge backlash coming from Tories so far, only from Ukipers.

[Jacksgranda]

10 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Having read more of the text and the interpretations, this not a bit of a fudge, it is a total fudge.

I don’t accept that it’s capitulation, I think the EU side has also backtracked.  They said they wanted clarity before moving to the second phase of negotiations; this isn’t clarity, this isn’t even close to clarity.

 

Sir Jeffrey Donaldson was making things "crystal clear" on radio Ulster earlier on. RoI lost.

A Fine Gael minister/MEP (can't remember which) was also on, although he was only making things "clear". DUP lost.

There was an economist/pundit/expert on. NI wins

Various members of the general public were on. DUP traitors/DUP losers. (Delete according to political leaning.)

That about sums it up.

[Kyle]

57 minutes ago, HTG said:

The Irish border solution coupled with no UK mainland border for arrivals from the north by necessity means free movement of people and goods in and out of the UK from EU member states. That, aligned with ongoing ECJ jurisdiction and ongoing contribution to the EU budget suggests that after 15 months of "robust" negotiations,  the UK has achieved the square root of f**k all. 

That is good news - it saves another referendum on the final terms of exit (lol) because they'll be exactly the same as staying in it. 

Red white and blue Brexit right enough. Let the band strike up Jerusalem. 

Only difference is we wont get the benefits of the new trade deal negotiated with Japan and the one nearly completed with Central America.

The rage of the brexiteer separatists on twitter is a joy to behold right now. Lots of talk of traitors and surrender.

[AyrExile]

1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said:

I'll take that as a yes. More cerebral SNP supporters already grasp that what is happening is very good news for them and that the prospects of the Yes side winning a future referendum have been significantly enhanced. I suggest you find what they are writing:

https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-lesson/

Significantly enhanced? The general public has witnessed the lies coming from both sides from day one and had some insight into the complexity involved in divorcing from a Union for little benefit. Got to wonder what appetite will now remain for any more happening in the foreseeable future. 

[Kyle]

3 minutes ago, AyrExile said:

Significantly enhanced? The general public has witnessed the lies coming from both sides from day one and had some insight into the complexity involved in divorcing from a Union for little benefit. Got to wonder what appetite will now remain for any more happening in the foreseeable future. 

I think the benefits are more clear to see now. The border argument diminished, the opportunity to rejoin the EU which we didn't want to leave in the first place and the opportunity to remove ourselves from a situation where every part of Scotland can vote for one thing and precisely the opposite happens.

Agree there may not be a great deal of economic benefit but the idea of closing the border to England made me feel uncomfortable and that was as a yes voter. This sets a precedent which shows that may not have to happen. I guess we'll see what the net result of this is on support for independence, but I certainly don't think it'll drop and there's a fair chance it will rise, even if just slightly, on the back of this.

[LongTimeLurker]

Great article on what has happened from Dublin, although think he's wrong about the DUP at the end not getting what they want:

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-ireland-has-just-saved-the-uk-from-the-madness-of-a-hard-brexit-1.3320096?mode=amp

The last thing an Irish nationalist is ever going to be able to state is that the DUP have come out on top as a zero sum game mentality still very much applies that precludes the possibility of both FG and the DUP being justifiably happy with what has just unfolded. It will no doubt be much the same from a Unionist perspective in the News Letter on how the RoI has to have lost in some way. Overall though the RoI-NI border has been the issue on which the Hard Brexit of the "swivel-eyed loons" and their "great blue yonder of Empire 2.0" has foundered and thank fork for that.

Edited December 8, 2017 by LongTimeLurker

[doulikefish]

Barnier and co have ran rings around may n co.The only thing the eu havent got there way with yet is the payment for the relocation of the eu agencies currently located here but he Barnier said "he will bring this up at a later date "

[NotThePars]

I think 40+ billion is a worthy cost to pay to ensure that we never attempt to go through this fucking shite again.

[Cerberus]

Probably everyone is just relived that it's not a hard Brexit but the Government has absolutely shat their red, white and blue pants.
The EU have made no concessions at all. There's no Irish Border, the UK is paying a divorce bill,  the UK is allowing free movement of people and guaranteeing the rights of EU citizens.

All these Leave guys should be strung up by their baws. Lying fuckers.

[DrewDon]