Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[zidane's child]

2 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

The latest statement following last night's dinner is wonderful and meaningless.  

Here's what really happened, May got told that if she wants progress on a post-Brexit trade agreement she must come up with a solution to the Irish border issue, find a way of protecting the rights of EU citizens living in the U.K. and be clearer about how much the U.K. will spend on the divorce bill.

In other words address the same three issues that needed addressed last week, last month, six months ago...

Anything else is just smoke and mirrors.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

[Billy Jean King]

5 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

The latest statement following last night's dinner is wonderful and meaningless.  

Here's what really happened, May got told that if she wants progress on a post-Brexit trade agreement she must come up with a solution to the Irish border issue, find a way of protecting the rights of EU citizens living in the U.K. and be clearer about how much the U.K. will spend on the divorce bill.

In other words address the same three issues that needed addressed last week, last month, six months ago...

Anything else is just smoke and mirrors.

The lamb was wonderfully succulent though !

[Baxter Parp]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-oecd-eu-referendum-second-economy-reverse-uk-europe-theresa-may-latest-a8004676.html

Reverse Brexit with second referendum to save your economy, OECD tells UK

Seems reasonable.

[Cerberus]

16 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-oecd-eu-referendum-second-economy-reverse-uk-europe-theresa-may-latest-a8004676.html

Reverse Brexit with second referendum to save your economy, OECD tells UK

Seems reasonable.

“I think people in this country, have had enough of experts.”
- Michael Gove

Those experts with their facts getting in the way of good ol' British yer da type racism.

[zidane's child]

Frankly I think any deal is a catastrophe at this point. I have absolutely no idea what the government want to get from negotiations because their positions change depending on who you speak to, so any deal feels like it'd be half baked or disproportionately weighted towards those whom would benefit the most.

[williemillersmoustache]

1 minute ago, zidane's child said:

Frankly I think any deal is a catastrophe at this point. I have absolutely no idea what the government want to get from negotiations because their positions change depending on who you speak to, so any deal feels like it'd be half baked or disproportionately weighted towards those whom would benefit the most.

There will be a deal of some kind and regardless of how fucking terrible it is, it will be presented as a supreme victory for all concerned and anyone saying it's not super-fantastic will be burned at the stake.

In other brexit news, official crime stats now officially confirm the meteoric rise in hate crimes in England and Wales following the vote.  Well done Britain, I say.

[Fullerene]

10 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

The latest statement following last night's dinner is wonderful and meaningless.  

Here's what really happened, May got told that if she wants progress on a post-Brexit trade agreement she must come up with a solution to the Irish border issue, find a way of protecting the rights of EU citizens living in the U.K. and be clearer about how much the U.K. will spend on the divorce bill.

In other words address the same three issues that needed addressed last week, last month, six months ago...

Anything else is just smoke and mirrors.

How quickly do you think she tried talking about the weather instead?

[Granny Danger]

22 minutes ago, Fullerene said:

How quickly do you think she tried talking about the weather instead?

Despite seeming like a grumpy old bugger on here I actually believe the vast majority of people are good and decent human beings.  However the head-in-the-sand approach to Brexit is really testing my faith in people.

I don't thing everyone who vote Leave was a xenophobe or a racist or was fuelled by extreme political motivation but the unwillingness of ordinary Leave voters to recognise the political reality of their decision is despairing.

We can question whether it is morally correct for the 27 to play hardball in the way in which they're doing it, but it is absolute folly to ignore that they are doing it and equal folly to ignore the implications.

The way things are going we are going to f**k the economy of the country for a couple of decades and there is no reason or justification for doing it.

 

 

[Scary Bear]

Despite seeming like a grumpy old bugger on here I actually believe the vast majority of people are good and decent human beings.  However the head-in-the-sand approach to Brexit is really testing my faith in people.
I don't thing everyone who vote Leave was a xenophobe or a racist or was fuelled by extreme political motivation but the unwillingness of ordinary Leave voters to recognise the political reality of their decision is despairing.
We can question whether it is morally correct for the 27 to play hardball in the way in which they're doing it, but it is absolute folly to ignore that they are doing it and equal folly to ignore the implications.
The way things are going we are going to f**k the economy of the country for a couple of decades and there is no reason or justification for doing it.
 
 

As a Leave voter, I see the daily reports of impending doom. I see the dreadful excuse we have for a government, the PM with no mandate, the people who are in charge of negotiations and appear to be having a nightmare. It's a worry. I do feel like I've been sold a pup. All the politicians who were front and centre pre-referendum have bailed out.

However, I see the way the EU acts too. I think those British and European politicians who were proposing changing the EU from the inside in pre-referendum debates as pretty disingenuous. The EU are not interested in any major changes to the way they do business. If we do go crawling back with our tail between our legs and beg to be let back in, where does that leave us? I suppose it would still leave us in a better position than if we have to re-apply to join the EU when/if it all goes wrong.

Either way, if the politicians decide to stiff the Leave voters to save the economy, it may well be the correct decision. Not sure if the majority who voted for Leave would be happy with it though.

I think if we do stay in the European Union with no changes to how we interact with them, we'll only be storing up trouble for later.

[Fullerene]

I think some people voted Leave because they don't regard themselves as European.
Some see us paying in and don't see what we get in return.
Some see this island as being a little bit overcrowded - especially in part of England.
Some want to return to a past that never was.
Some don't like all these foreigners talking foreign languages that they don't understand.
A lot of people have no idea what these trade deals are about and how any of it will affect their lives.

There are any number of reasons.

However, all those saying it is going to be great are demonstrating the best techniques of a snake oil salesman.
Nothing suggests to me that they really have a plan.
All the economic indicators are pointing downwards.

Yet those who voted Leave continue to state that they voted Leave and expect the politicians to square the circle - and  from politicians who probably failed geometry at primary school.

 

[sophia]

31 minutes ago, Fullerene said:

I think some people voted Leave because they don't regard themselves as European.
Some see us paying in and don't see what we get in return.
Some see this island as being a little bit overcrowded - especially in part of England.
Some want to return to a past that never was.
Some don't like all these foreigners talking foreign languages that they don't understand.
A lot of people have no idea what these trade deals are about and how any of it will affect their lives.

There are any number of reasons.

However, all those saying it is going to be great are demonstrating the best techniques of a snake oil salesman.
Nothing suggests to me that they really have a plan.
All the economic indicators are pointing downwards.

Yet those who voted Leave continue to state that they voted Leave and expect the politicians to square the circle - and  from politicians who probably failed geometry at primary school.

 

That's a cute post and I think the way you make your point benefits from it being in no way obtuse.

[Cerberus]

Quote

Ian Murray, a Labour MP and supporter of the Open Britain group, added: “Neither the Governor of the Bank of England, nor anyone credible in business, believes it is likely that the final deal on Britain’s future relationship with Europe can be fully negotiated by 2019.

So it's either 'no deal' or no Brexit.
I wonder if the majority of Brexiteers would change their mind if they were offered a straight choice on that.

 

[sophia]

6 minutes ago, Cerberus said:

So it's either 'no deal' or no Brexit.
I wonder if the majority of Brexiteers would change their mind if they were offered a straight choice on that.

 

"No deal"

There's an urge for ounces and an imperative for inches.

 

[welshbairn]

12 minutes ago, sophia said:

"No deal"

There's an urge for ounces and an imperative for inches.

 

[Scary Bear]

Fixed that for you!
But what I'd say Is I agree with the thought that not every brexit voter was doing so because of racism etc, I believe some genuinely (albeit wrongly) saw it as a way to stand up to the EU which was vilified as being some kind of big baddie. I think we could all see this madness coming on the remain side, but its like watching a car crash now.

A car crash would indicate some form of action. At the moment there's been a fall in the value of the pound, but I'm not feeling that much pain. I don't doubt there will be a car crash, as any sort of radical change has a high chance of it. My general reaction is 'get on with it.'

[bob the tank]

Get on with it, get us out now with no deal and f**k the next generation...

[Scary Bear]

Get on with it, get us out now with no deal and f**k the next generation...

"Brexit means Brexit!" "We knew what we were voting for!"

It's getting on for 16 months since the EU referendum. I don't know what other phrase than 'get on with it' I can come up with. If the EU don't want to give us a trade deal or whoever the team negotiating this (who are they exactly?) don't get a decent deal, then that's that. A bit of Armageddon it is.

I suppose they could try and get an EU Ref 2 organised. What are we voting for? Is it still just going to be a 'gut feel' Yes/No vote or will each side put a bit of effort in this time and produce some documentation?

[bob the tank]

We (Scotland), just need to get away from these people, simple as that. They seem to share none of the values that I was brought up think were the way society should be.

[Scary Bear]

We (Scotland), just need to get away from these people, simple as that. They seem to share none of the values that I was brought up think were the way society should be.

We had a chance to do that in 2014. Much as it annoyed me, we didn't fancy it.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

14 minutes ago, bob the tank said:

We (Scotland), just need to get away from these people, simple as that. They seem to share none of the values that I was brought up think were the way society should be.

This is true, and entirely logical. Disappointingly however we are a national of servile shitebags. Whether it's political decisions, sport or indeed almost anything else, given the opportunity for meaningful change we will without question utterly shit the bed and vote for anything which brings us more misery. Frankly, we deserve everything we fucking get.