Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[welshbairn]

4 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

 

 

 

I just think that other empires could have been more aggressive in their desires to cling on to the colonies.

I think the British establishment realised that the writing was on the wall and we gradually wound our neck in.
 

 

 

 

There was also a fair amount of pressure from the Americans who thought that Colonialism was a big propaganda asset to global Communism, aside from being against it for obvious historical reasons.

[Colkitto]

3 hours ago, Mastermind said:

 

Yet still the Scottish people voted to remain part of Britain. Three years on and you are still absolutely fizzing. What a minter.

 

Of course I'm still fucking fizzing! Look at the state of the place and it's about to get a lot worse! If you're happy with that then you're the minter not me! 

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, pandarilla said:

I just think that other empires could have been more aggressive in their desires to cling on to the colonies.

I think the British establishment realised that the writing was on the wall and we gradually wound our neck in.
 

 

 

 

You might want to check up on all the leading historical works that contradict your thoughts on the process. It is absolutely clear that the British were forced to give up empire: by Indian nationalist threats of civil disobedience or even revolt during the height of the Second World War; by the United States as the bankroller for Britain (and France) bankroller from 1945 to the late 1950s, who had absolutely no interest in the 'free' West retaining colonial territories, except to directly check the spread of communism (France in Indochina). The writing was put on the wall in giant Helvetica font by the US during the Suez crisis, when it threatened to tank the British and French economies if they continued to meddle in Egypt's affairs: a check on empire that directly brought down the Eden government. 

After Suez and in the context of rising Third World liberation movements, often with Marxist support, it made little sense for Britain to hold onto a largely sub-Saharan empire of little economic value at that time. Britain didn't have the force to secure it again internal revolts nor the external backing of the US for that policy.

Had it been left to the 'British establishment' including Churchill and Eden, we'd probably be fighting the Seventeenth Kenyan War at the moment. 

Edited August 4, 2017 by vikingTON

[pandarilla]

f**k off you tedious c**t.

[pandarilla]

I am the furthest thing from being either a British nationalist - or a defender of the British establishment.

But the fact that the establishment has managed to continue and evolve - without any radical change our revolution - has to be acknowledged.

Those in charge knew when they had to pull back and withdraw a bit. Yes they did it reluctantly, and they certainly didn't do it for moral reasons. But the self preservation mechanism of the establishment has to be recognised. They rarely overreached, and when they did they quickly learned lessons.

It's a general point but it's one I think stands.

[RiG]

2 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

The fisherman in the NE will not be happy with that.

Get it right fucking up them.

[Lurkst]

On Thursday, August 03, 2017 at 07:18, McSpreader said:

Our nearest neighbour is France.

 

On Thursday, August 03, 2017 at 08:05, Antiochas III said:

1.  We (The Uk) share a land border with Ireland.  You can't get closer than that you absolute mental case.

France is London's nearest neighbour though. I guess that's all that matters...

 

[Baxter Parp]

Without Irish unification, a hard Brexit is impossible

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/04/ireland-border-eu-brexit-unification

Cat, meet pigeons.

[vikingTON]

I am the furthest thing from being either a British nationalist - or a defender of the British establishment.

But the fact that the establishment has managed to continue and evolve - without any radical change our revolution - has to be acknowledged.

Those in charge knew when they had to pull back and withdraw a bit. Yes they did it reluctantly, and they certainly didn't do it for moral reasons. But the self preservation mechanism of the establishment has to be recognised. They rarely overreached, and when they did they quickly learned lessons.

It's a general point but it's one I think stands.

f**k off you tedious c**t.

^^^ verge of tears

Unfortunately for you, that assessment of the end of the British Empire doesn't tally with the conclusions of historians who have actually spent years looking at the archival material. Your interpretation of the British establishment is null and void.

[pandarilla]

^^^ verge of tears

Unfortunately for you, that assessment of the end of the British Empire doesn't tally with the conclusions of historians who have actually spent years looking at the archival material. Your interpretation of the British establishment is null and void.

Hard luck champ?? Or some other horrendous patter?

It would be interesting to debate the matter further but unfortunately, as I said, you're a c**t.

[Granny Danger]

I genuinely have this vision of folks in the UK in about five years time wondering how the country managed to take such a completely stupid decision about the future.  It will put things like worries about austerity, pensions, social care, the NHS and the general economy into perspective.

"How can we/they have been so fucking stupid?" will be the cry, but by then it will too late.  Distopian? Yes.  Likely?  Sadly, yes too.

[trainspotter]

31 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

"How can we have been so fucking stupid?"

I doubt that your typical advocate of Brexit is capable of that level of self awareness.

[McSpreader]

10 hours ago, bob the tank said:

I actually knew people who fought against the mau mau in Kenya, against the separatists in Malaya and against EOKA in Cyprus. That is real facilitation.

My Father fought in Cyprus in the Parachute regiment  so I get what your saying.  Funnily enough he loved Cyprus and the Cypriots and returned there countless times after his service. I'm not kidding anyone that any nation has given up every part of it's former empire easily but on the whole most of the British Empire gained Independence peacefully.

Unfortunately there are many examples of the British getting it wrong, just as the EU is getting it wrong today over Brexit and attempting to cling on to it's Empire by trying to punish the UK, even though they have no constitutional right to take that stance.

[McSpreader]

12 hours ago, pandarilla said:

 

I agreed with this post up to the point of 'fucking up by joining France and Germany'. The eu has been arguably one of the best peace creating organisations.

I'd also remove the word 'encouraged' from your early point about empire breaking up. Yes we facilitated these nations setting up on their own, and deserve a lot of credit for that, but we hardly encouraged it. We were slowly shafting these places for our own financial ends (even if it did bring some clear benefits to the colonies along the way. Many of these so-called benefits of union came as a result of good individuals - rather than the general apparatus of empire-building state.)

 

The EU was originally The Common Market  and that's exactly how it should have stayed.

The 'Peace Keeping' aspect of the European Union is undoubtedly  a good and beneficial aspect for smaller nations that border larger, historically belligerent nations  such as Germany  and any nation with a border dispute , which is almost every nation in Europe. But the UK is blessedly protected from those issues thanks to the English Channel.....or La Manche, as you Europhiles prefer to call it

[welshbairn]

13 minutes ago, McSpreader said:

The EU was originally The Common Market  and that's exactly how it should have stayed.

The 'Peace Keeping' aspect of the European Union is undoubtedly  a good and beneficial aspect for smaller nations that border larger, historically belligerent nations  such as Germany  and any nation with a border dispute , which is almost every nation in Europe. But the UK is blessedly protected from those issues thanks to the English Channel.....or La Manche, as you Europhiles prefer to call it

Or Ireland, as others like to call it.

[lichtgilphead]

13 minutes ago, McSpreader said:

The EU was originally The Common Market  and that's exactly how it should have stayed.

The 'Peace Keeping' aspect of the European Union is undoubtedly  a good and beneficial aspect for smaller nations that border larger, historically belligerent nations  such as Germany  and any nation with a border dispute , which is almost every nation in Europe. But the UK is blessedly protected from those issues thanks to the English Channel.....or La Manche, as you Europhiles prefer to call it

1) Gibraltar has a border with Spain

2) Northern Ireland has a border with Eire

Are you seriously suggesting that neither of these borders are disputed by anyone?

[McSpreader]

Just now, lichtgilphead said:

1) Gibraltar has a border with Spain

2) Northern Ireland has a border with Eire

Are you seriously suggesting that neither of these borders are disputed by anyone?

Not in a way that would lead to the Irish Army marching North nor the Spanish Army invading the Rock.

The only dispute between the UK and Eire is not about whether the border should be there but over where the line of the border should be in reference to the waters of Lough Foyle and Carlingford Lough.

 

[lichtgilphead]

5 minutes ago, McSpreader said:

Not in a way that would lead to the Irish Army marching North nor the Spanish Army invading the Rock.

The only dispute between the UK and Eire is not about whether the border should be there but over where the line of the border should be in reference to the waters of Lough Foyle and Carlingford Lough.

 

So, you agree there are border disputes then, even though it's only half an hour since you said the UK was 'blessedly protected' from issues of this sort 

[DublinMagyar]

"Revered and Idolised" [emoji28]

[topcat(The most tip top)]

 

Hard luck champ?? Or some other horrendous patter?

 

It would be interesting to debate the matter further but unfortunately, as I said, you're a c**t.

 

Just because he's a c**t doesn't mean he's wrong

 

That's a classic logical fallacy