Michael W Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 There are ways and means for the Torys to destroy their current position of strength - leaving the EU is one of them, depending on how it goes. The current rhetoric may please some of the more vociferous leavers, but to the cost of many others and to Britain as a whole. Businesses are already concerned about what lies ahead, and all this conference has done is set the alarm bells ringing for them. I have no idea whether or not the Tories mean this or are buying time for the delay in A.50, but I will assume they do mean it as it makes no sense at all otherwise. The danger is that when you fan the flames here, the fire becomes uncontrollable - and May is in danger of losing control very soon. The economic cost could be catastrophic: it points towards a "hard brexit" which most won't like and it almost seems to me like the govt are goading businesses with their current stances. It shows a complete failure to engage with them at all. It has taken a while, but it is about now that the Conservatives will start to eat themselves. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 20 minutes ago, Michael W said: There are ways and means for the Torys to destroy their current position of strength - leaving the EU is one of them, depending on how it goes. The current rhetoric may please some of the more vociferous leavers, but to the cost of many others and to Britain as a whole. Businesses are already concerned about what lies ahead, and all this conference has done is set the alarm bells ringing for them. I have no idea whether or not the Tories mean this or are buying time for the delay in A.50, but I will assume they do mean it as it makes no sense at all otherwise. The danger is that when you fan the flames here, the fire becomes uncontrollable - and May is in danger of losing control very soon. The economic cost could be catastrophic: it points towards a "hard brexit" which most won't like and it almost seems to me like the govt are goading businesses with their current stances. It shows a complete failure to engage with them at all. It has taken a while, but it is about now that the Conservatives will start to eat themselves. Most of the Tory MP's voted Remain. I'm assuming May is setting up a hard line bargaining position with the EU; we have no problem going the WTO route if you don't give concessions on freedom of movement. I can't believe she thinks coming out of the single market would be anything other than a huge cost in money, regulation and government bureaucracy. It has to be a bluff. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Stubbs Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 1 hour ago, Loondave1 said: The fact is that unless the SNP deliver on independence Tory rule is for the foreseeable and that's that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 1 hour ago, welshbairn said: Most of the Tory MP's voted Remain. I'm assuming May is setting up a hard line bargaining position with the EU; we have no problem going the WTO route if you don't give concessions on freedom of movement. I can't believe she thinks coming out of the single market would be anything other than a huge cost in money, regulation and government bureaucracy. It has to be a bluff. I'd like to hope she doesn't really mean what she's said, but in the meantime her remarks are damaging the UK politically, socially and economically. Then you have the problem that the bonfire has been lit - failure to deliver will result in a backlash from certain quarters. The EU won't compromise on free movement, so that's pretty much that. It won't please many EU exporters if Britain is out the single market, but the EU itself will suffer less damage than Britain does. As I've said before, the EU's project is finished if they compromise with Britian - more states will follow the same route to control immigration and the game's a bogey. Accepting some economic damage is therefore palatable. The route of the problem is that most Remain voters will demand nothing less than pretty much the EEA route (accepting what that means with immigration etc) and most Leave voters demand nothing less than sovereignty and control of the borders (accepting what this means with the single market): these are impossible to reconcile. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 It's a myth that freedom of movement is inviolable and beyond compromise. When Poland joined up Germany and France delayed it for a few years whereas Britain put the welcome sign up so most of them came here. Instead of a few tens of thousands around a million came over, and even after France and Germany raised their block they continued to come here instead because contacts had been established. The list of jobs that the Government admits we need immigration to fulfill will expand until Eastern European countries realise they won't really be affected too much by a form of words that allows the Government to say it has taken back control of the borders. We'll effectively be back in the EU without a voice at the table, and even a fair proportion of Leave voters will breathe a sigh of relief, especially the likes of Sunderland and Cornish voters. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambomo Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 2 hours ago, Baxter Parp said: Where is that from? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackie The Staggie Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 46 minutes ago, Jambomo said: Where is that from? Not sure where he got that line from but I saw something similar pop up in my twiiter feed. Turns out schools in England are carrying out a 'census' and one of the questions asks for nationality. The fear is that the information may be used by the Home Office, who have requested access to this information before, for immigration targets etc. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/sep/26/parents-boycott-requests-childrens-country-of-birth-information 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 9 hours ago, jupe1407 said: Unlikely to be Cream Cheese as any pre-existing poster would have known you were a trolling simpleton and not wasted bandwidth on you. HTH If I find you using "bandwidth" again I will hunt you down. Completely unnecessary Jupe - shame on you sir! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSpreader Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 3 hours ago, Baxter Parp said: You mean they don't already ?.....That's shocking ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSpreader Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 9 hours ago, WILLIEA said: First they came for the doctors, and I turned a blind eye! etc. etc. Really......?? That's the way to shut down the debate. Over the last 15 years the UK has seen unprecedented levels of immigration and each Gov't has no idea who is here or whether they're needed. The people have continually asked Gov'ts to control immigration and every Gov't has failed. The result is Brexit. If the Govt's had listened to the people instead of the pompous, morally self-elevated liberal noise of the media and the London/Edinburgh metropolitan elite then we wouldn't be where we are now. To compare the situation in the UK to the rise of Nazism is exactly the level of debate that the silent majority reacts against at the ballot box . I can't understand why people aren't trying to understand the motivation of those voters who feel so let down, disenfranchised and utterly disconnected to mainstream politics that they have fled the ( What was ) main 3 parties for crackpot niche parties such as UKIP ( 4million votes) and the SNP ( 1.5 million votes). Btw Williea this is not a personal attack , I say that because too many on here take it all too personally. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSpreader Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 9 hours ago, jupe1407 said: Unlikely to be Cream Cheese as any pre-existing poster would have known you were a trolling simpleton and not wasted bandwidth on you. HTH A trolling simpleton he says and then wastes bandwidth on me .....Ahem! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclizine Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 10 hours ago, The Chlamydia Kid said: Most organisations who invest significant amount of time and money in staff training will have stipulations that you can not leave with in an agreed time period after completion or you will have to repay the costs- affect felt be fined. That is standard and rational practice. If the medical students in England were fully subsidised, then maybe you'd have a point. However, if they're paying upwards of £50,000 to study for 5-6 years I think your argument suffers. This £250,000 figure to train a doctor is utter bollocks. Hospitals receive cash for student placements. Someone has just added up the total cash and divided it by the number of students. Remember, this figure will include salaries of university staff who hold an honorary NHS contract - you could argue that's saving the hospital money... It also belittles the fact that medical students and junior doctors are not just learning, they are providing service to the NHS. In fact, this applies to all allied health students. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 At £250,000 each we could train 70,000 a year with the £350,000,000 a week we're going to save. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Just out of interest, 68% increase on the number of passport applications for the Republic of Ireland from Northern Ireland (with comparable period last year), the figure rises to an increase of 97% in the number of applications received from Sco/Eng&Wales, since Brexit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerberus Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 But we took back control!!!!!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 46 minutes ago, RedRob72 said: Just out of interest, 68% increase on the number of passport applications for the Republic of Ireland from Northern Ireland (with comparable period last year), the figure rises to an increase of 97% in the number of applications received from Sco/Eng&Wales, since Brexit. And in numerical terms, how many 100s of thousands is this? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 51 minutes ago, RedRob72 said: Just out of interest, 68% increase on the number of passport applications for the Republic of Ireland from Northern Ireland (with comparable period last year), the figure rises to an increase of 97% in the number of applications received from Sco/Eng&Wales, since Brexit. Jammy beggars with an irish parent/grandparent 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speckled tangerine Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 36 minutes ago, doulikefish said: Jammy beggars with an irish parent/grandparent My two and a half year old boy has one through my Irish missus. He got a wee pat on the head and a "welcome home son" at Cork airport from the Gardai boy in the summer. They'll be cruising through the EU gate in Spain a couple of years down the line whilst muggins will be treated like a racist fascist by some guy who probably had a grandad who was an actual facist. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Briggs Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 6 minutes ago, speckled tangerine said: My two and a half year old boy has one through my Irish missus. He got a wee pat on the head and a "welcome home son" at Cork airport from the Gardai boy in the summer. They'll be cruising through the EU gate in Spain a couple of years down the line whilst muggins will be treated like a racist fascist by some guy who probably had a grandad who was an actual facist. Alternatively, you could move your family to Ireland and become an Irish citizen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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