Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[John Lambies Doos]

Let's face it, this Tory Govt has no intent on pulling out of EU. It will go on and on and on until lie of land changes!

[The_Kincardine]

11 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said:

 

Let's face it, this Tory Govt has no intent on pulling out of EU. It will go on and on and on until lie of land changes!

 

I hope so.  Brexit was always a farce but I do think Mrs May has acquitted herself well so far.

[Bully Wee Villa]

Brexit is shite but, sadly, it will happen.

[Michael W]

It'll happen eventually, even if it is an utter mess right now. May has done reasonably well so far taking her time, although the first real sight of leadership on "Brexit" came today, I thought, as David Davis was shot down in flames over the single market. 

Theresa May didn't pledge the "Australian-style points based immigration system" or the £350m NHS money, so she is quite right not to entertain these notions. What she was elected on, however, was a pledge in the Tory manifesto to protect Britain's place in the single market. In reality, that's where the contentions are going to arise: what is acceptable to the EU won't be acceptable to leave voters and vice versa. Basically, with the best will in the world, a lot of people will be unhappy whatever happens. 

The Civil Service is an utter mess over the vote as well, as the Cabinet Office, no doubt on orders from the top, banned government departments from any contingency planning in the event of a vote to leave. 

I really fucking hate the word "Brexit" - it reeks of shitey tabloid journalism. 

[The_Kincardine]

3 minutes ago, Michael W said:

It'll happen eventually, even if it is an utter mess right now. May has done reasonably well so far taking her time, although the first real sight of leadership on "Brexit" came today, I thought, as David Davis was shot down in flames over the single market.

How long before David Davis spits the dummy?  He really is a self-aggrandizing drama queen.  I give it until January.

[Alan Stubbs]

Slowly?

[Michael W]

4 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

How long before David Davis spits the dummy?  He really is a self-aggrandizing drama queen.  I give it until January.

Hopefully not long. He can return to the backbenches and do some decent work in again opposing the snooper's charter as it makes its 100th appearance before parliament. 

The thing is, guys like Davis wanted and campaigned to leave the EU, therefore are absolutely the people who should be taking the lead on doing so. If it goes wrong, they can then explain to the country exactly why their promises and pledges have failed to materialise. They can then pay the appropriate price at the ballot box. The likes of Gove and Boris running away after the vote cannot be allowed to happen a second time. 

The obvious downside of this is that many of the Leave campaigners have aspirations that fit in poorly with the those of most people who have sat on the Tory frontbench over the last few months. It was inevitably going to create conflict but, trouble is, what can you do? Britain may have voted to leave the EU, but it didn't vote to end free movement of persons or to leave the single market or the customs union. The exact nature of the vote is open to interpretation with regards to thise aspects. Trouble is, too many people want their cake and to eat it: a trade deal like we have now, but no immigration or EU laws. It is fantasy land stuff that will never happen, but unrealistic pledges like this were aided and abetted by the David Davis and friends during the campaign; they have to bear responsibility when these can't be delivered. 

[The_Kincardine]

2 minutes ago, Michael W said:

Britain may have voted to leave the EU, but it didn't vote to end free movement of persons or to leave the single market or the customs union. The exact nature of the vote is open to interpretation with regards to thise aspects.

On Davis: I think he's a vapid lightweight and that Theresa has set him up to fail.

On Theresa: I think she's cannier than expected.  I'm impressed so far.

On free movement of people:  I think this is exactly what the boneheads voted against.  10 weeks on and I am still grumpy as f**k about it.

[Michael W]

10 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

On Davis: I think he's a vapid lightweight and that Theresa has set him up to fail.

On Theresa: I think she's cannier than expected.  I'm impressed so far.

On free movement of people:  I think this is exactly what the boneheads voted against.  10 weeks on and I am still grumpy as f**k about it.

 

Agree on the first two. 

It's definitely one of the big reasons, otherwise it wouldn't have been the prominant feature of the campaign. I have sympathy with many arguments for leaving having previously been that way inclined myself, but that awful "breaking point" poster was utterly depressing. 

With the campaign spin gone, I wonder what the mood will be regarding free movement of people when the reality of trade deals starts to bite. Statements made during a campaign may have no consequences for the voters, but the outcome of it may bring a harsh, inconvenient reality. 

I've largely gotten over the vote, although my opinion may change when Article 50 is invoked depending on the consequences for the UK's economy. 

[The_Kincardine]

5 minutes ago, Michael W said:

 

With the campaign spin gone, I wonder what the mood will be regarding free movement of people when the reality of trade deals starts to bite. Statements made during a campaign may have no consequences for the voters, but the outcome of it may bring a harsh, inconvenient reality. 

I've largely gotten over the vote, although my opinion may change when Article 50 is invoked depending on the consequences for the UK's economy. 

I remain an idealist and value the free movement of labour/goods/capital/people irrespective of short-term economic and social changes.  Then again, I love nipping in to the Polish deli just down the road and buying a load of pickled herring, smoked cheese and sausages.  High Wycombe is a culinary desert made bearable by the incomers.

I doubt Brexit will have much impact on the people who voted for it.  A lot of immigration had nothing to do with The EU in the first place and, certainly in London, the recruitment of well-educated and thoroughly capable Europeans willl continue.

[Romeo]

Still waiting for the first of these "new hospitals" every week....can't be long now til we all have a dedicated hospital ward each.

[WILLIEA]

1 hour ago, Romeo said:

Still waiting for the first of these "new hospitals" every week....can't be long now til we all have a dedicated hospital ward each.

You'll be waiting quite a while I think.

The full impact of this idiocy on the NHS will be very detrimental. Losing/finding it harder to recruit skilled staff to the fact that almost all medical equipment and supplies are manufactured in France, Germany and Italy and will become much more expensive and the future is far from rosy.

[jakedee]

I cant think of another vote or official process of this magnitude that has been carried on a platform of blatant lies on this scale

I can [emoji6]

[Ad Lib]

I'm increasingly convinced May is giving the key Brexit voices a public opportunity to self-imolate until they're all totally discredited. The invocation of Art 50 is just going to keep slipping as they can't decide at all what they actually want. She's probably hoping the EU has another internal crisis and comes up with a plan for a more overt 2-tier membership structure (split along Euro/Non-Euro lines) then they can sell another referendum based on tier 2 and "what a mess it was last time" and they squeak home.

[williemillersmoustache]

^this is what is happening.

[WILLIEA]

I think and hope so too. Give them enough rope to hang themselves.

Then when they can't come up with something acceptable for the future get them to resign in disgrace and apologise to the country for the total f*ck they have made

[Jamaldo]

I hope it doesn't happen. The Leave vote crawled over the winning line thanks to a racist minority in the UK.

It's their right to cast their vote for whatever reason they see fit. Unfortunately their reason of "immigration" was fucking moronic.

[McSpreader]

I've no doubt that article 50 will have to be invoked eventually.

The one aspect of Brexit that every single Leave voter could agree on was .....to leave the EU.

Everything else is up for discussion as both sides in the campaign conducted a desperately poor campaign based on lies and fear-mongering (BOTH sides!)

As a result there was never a clear picture of what a Uk outwith the EU would look like. But, tbh, that could be a good thing as it is an opportunity to move away from the vitriol of the campaign and create something that can appeal to even reasonable minded Remain voters.

It would mean that Remain voters would have to accept were leaving but still get involved in making Brexit a positive experience as it most definitely can be.

I agree with Sturgeon that there needs to be more transparency with regard to informing the public of progress on fleshing out what Brexit means.

[McSpreader]

1 hour ago, Jamaldo said:

I hope it doesn't happen. The Leave vote crawled over the winning line thanks to a racist minority in the UK.

It's their right to cast their vote for whatever reason they see fit. Unfortunately their reason of "immigration" was fucking moronic.

Moronic how? It's probably hard to gauge the scale and impact of mass immigration from Stornoway. You may not be the best person to comment on the subject , even tho' you are entitled to an opinion, as are ,so you rightly say, 65,million other people in Britain. You probably don't realise that a lot of Leave voters aren't against immigration per se, but against the scale, the impact on their communities, the strain on local services and resources, the lack of control over who comes in and the fact they do not benefit  but see big business and the wealthy benefitting from cheap labour. It may be about prejudice for some but for the majority it's about the negative impact on their daily lives.....and the fact they are constantly lectured at by politicians who don't suffer the consequences.

Maybe from Stornoway 20 years of mass , unfettered immigration looks like a wonderful achievement of multi culturalism. For those in amngst it the picture ain't quite so rosy, I fear!! 

[Jamaldo]

Moronic how? It's probably hard to gauge the scale and impact of mass immigration from Stornoway. You may not be the best person to comment on the subject , even tho' you are entitled to an opinion, as are ,so you rightly say, 65,million other people in Britain. You probably don't realise that a lot of Leave voters aren't against immigration per se, but against the scale, the impact on their communities, the strain on local services and resources, the lack of control over who comes in and the fact they do not benefit  but see big business and the wealthy benefitting from cheap labour. It may be about prejudice for some but for the majority it's about the negative impact on their daily lives.....and the fact they are constantly lectured at by politicians who don't suffer the consequences.

Maybe from Stornoway 20 years of mass , unfettered immigration looks like a wonderful achievement of multi culturalism. For those in amngst it the picture ain't quite so rosy, I fear!! 

Stornoway and the rest of the island is certainly a bit more diverse than it probably was when I was born.

There definitely seems to be an element of people that have to be surronded completely by other white British people. I'm not even talking about the EDL or other morons like that. I'm on about normal people who get raging at the mere sight of a Polish shop. Why? Why does it affect them? These are just normal people trying to make a living like people who were born and brought up in the UK.

The "they're taking our jobs" argument is a complete non-starter. Certain employers take advantage of immigrants and pay them a crap wage because they're (the immigrants) desperate and don't know the laws. That isn't their fault. Again, they are simply trying to get by.

Like I said, if it wasn't for this type of voter, Leave wouldn't have won and we'd still be in a union which, while not perfect, is not the total dictatorship it's made it out to be. As it happens, maybe we will still be part of it.