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Livingston v Celtic U20's, Irn Bru Challenge Cup 3rd round


Davie Bhoy

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2 hours ago, Salvo Montalbano said:

Premier Sports show Gaelic Games etc and are based in Ireland so I imagine they'll show Linfield and/or Crusaders now?

Maybe they'll show Hibs games given Neil Lennon is the manager and they were always likely to be one of the favourites in this competition in contrast with Celtic U-20, who were never likely to feature beyond round 3? There's not a huge amount of crossover in interest between the GAA on the one hand and Linfield/Crusaders on the other given both clubs draw most of their support from stongly Unionist working class parts of Belfast. A Hibs vs Linfield/Crusaders final would give them the angle they would be looking for to appeal to some of their core audience, but even then I suspect it's mainly about adding some cheap filler content.

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Weren't we told that Rangers only needed a youth team to get through the sfl leagues and shouldn't have been signing players?

This colts experiment shows that was a lot of nonsense.

 

 

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Weren't we told that Rangers only needed a youth team to get through the sfl leagues and shouldn't have been signing players?

This colts experiment shows that was a lot of nonsense.

 

 

What the f**k you banging on about now when Livi went down to the third division we came up the two divisions in two seasons with mostly our youth. There was no need to spunk money on the shite you did spending £7,000 a week on wages to get out the fourth tier.

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16 hours ago, Whitburn Vale said:

Hopefully cheerio to the diddy idea of colts teams in any senior competition in future,as for Celtic get it roon yea.

Think if anything the inability of the U-20 teams to cope with most SPFL teams will remove much of the fear factor over having U-20 teams introduced into the senior grade's pyramid.

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Think if anything the inability of the U-20 teams to cope with most SPFL teams will remove much of the fear factor over having U-20 teams introduced into the senior grade's pyramid.



There's no fear factor when it comes to actually playing these teams? Just that nobody wants to be competing in the same league as these teams.
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7 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

There's no fear factor when it comes to actually playing these teams? Just that nobody wants to be competing in the same league as these teams.

If they were introduced into feeder leagues for the Highland and Lowland Leagues, I doubt there would be much danger of SPFL4 slowly filling up with U-20 teams in the years that followed, so as long as Arbroath can avoid being Club 42, as is likely given the bottom half of SPFL3 is more your natural habitat, there would be no rational reason to be bitterly opposed to U-20 teams entering further down the pyramid. Very few people watch most Lowland and Highland league games, so there probably wouldn't be a problem at that level, if financial inducements were offered to have them involved. I really don't see what the point was, if that's not the end game.

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2 hours ago, bennett said:

Weren't we told that Rangers only needed a youth team to get through the sfl leagues and shouldn't have been signing players?

This colts experiment shows that was a lot of nonsense.

:lol: I'm never sure if you're trolling or just very, very thick.

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2 hours ago, parsforlife said:

If its insulting to have u20s in the spfl its still true putting them lower down the pyramid, we shouldn't be looking at a level considered diddy enough that they should put up with them instead.

Where's the insult? The Dutch have youth orientated B teams (don't think the format is structly U-20) in as high as their fully pro second tier, with Jong PSV currently in first place and Jong Ajax third:

http://www.livescore.com/soccer/holland/jupiler-league/

and their new national semi-pro third tier was launched this season with another four Jong teams (suspect that terminology would probably not be adopted in a Scottish context) like that, with Jong AZ Alkmaar currently in top place:

http://www.livescore.com/soccer/holland/tweede-divisie/

They were the last continental European country to form a functioning pyramid structure, so that wasn't part of their traditional football culture. But why would we have anything to learn from a country that's clearly got a better youth development system in place than us? My argument above was a more pragmatic one than that and only suggested that this year's Challenge Cup shows that opponents to such a move at the lower division SPFL level have nothing much to fear from it as almost all of the U-20 teams clearly would not be able to hack it in the national divisions, making rabid opposition less likely. At a lower level if Edusport Academy, Civil Service Strollers  and the Uni sides are seen as acceptable, why would anybody have a problem with U-20 teams?

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If they were introduced into feeder leagues for the Highland and Lowland Leagues, I doubt there would be much danger of SPFL4 slowly filling up with U-20 teams in the years that followed, so as long as Arbroath can avoid being Club 42, as is likely given the bottom half of SPFL3 is more your natural habitat, there would be no rational reason to be bitterly opposed to U-20 teams entering further down the pyramid. Very few people watch most Lowland and Highland league games, so there probably wouldn't be a problem at that level, if financial inducements were offered to have them involved. I really don't see what the point was, if that's not the end game.



Do you mean the bottom half of league 2 our natural habitat? We've finished in the bottom half of L2 once the last 20 years? Or do you mean league 1?

And I don't see the point of it, can't see a single benefit of it, not one, if under 20s want to play against men then they can either break into their own 1st teams, move, or go on loan, which loads of them do already
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Think if anything the inability of the U-20 teams to cope with most SPFL teams will remove much of the fear factor over having U-20 teams introduced into the senior grade's pyramid.



If you think it's a fear factor that has most people opposed to it you're very much mistaken. The only reason the SPFL want this is so they can have twice as much bigotry courtesy of those fucking horrible cunty clubs in Glasgow to sell to the telly people. Us lower league fans have no desire to be subjected to that shite.
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. At a lower level if Edusport Academy, Civil Service Strollers  and the Uni sides are seen as acceptable, why would anybody have a problem with U-20 teams?



Leaving aside the hilarious comparisons with the Dutch system you do realise that the uni teams etc are first teams? They are formed to play competitive football with the aim of wining games, trophies etc, this is in no way similar to teams using matches for development and there opponents being told they are sparring partners for teenagers to practice with.
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I think you could go around, and ask people involved at every lower league club at every level, fans to chairman, if they would like to start playing premiership youth teams in their league, and 95 percent would say they had zero interest whatsoever. Who benefits from it? No idea how it would benefit Scotland or indeed the clubs? And even then lower league clubs aren't here to act as a tool to serve the national team or premiership clubs. Would certainly kill off my interest in watching Arbroath.

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? And even then lower league clubs aren't here to act as a tool to serve the national team or premiership clubs. Would certainly kill off my interest in watching Arbroath.

THIS. If you start placing 4-5 games a year of an exhibition team ahead of our club game you have your priorities entirely wrong.

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21 minutes ago, Mybitchunderprotest said:

If you think it's a fear factor that has most people opposed to it you're very much mistaken. The only reason the SPFL want this is so they can have twice as much bigotry courtesy of those fucking horrible cunty clubs in Glasgow to sell to the telly people. Us lower league fans have no desire to be subjected to that shite.

Twelve U-20 teams entered the competition this year rather than just two, and who seriously thought that teams of 18 and 19 year olds were going to hack it in this competition, given past experience has consistently shown that most of them ultimately won't make the grade even in an Old Firm context? If they were serious about getting these teams to the Linfield and Crusaders stage so they could use ancestral tribalism to pull in crowds they would have gone for a U-23 format so the colt teams actually stood a chance. Think you'll find that the real reason this is being pushed is a widespread perception that the SPFL Development League and Pro Youth isn't getting the job done on player development. There are numerous examples elsewhere in Europe of the lower divisions being used for youth orientated B teams, so it's not surprising that Scotland's top clubs were keen on the concept as well in the early stages of the SPL-SFL merger negotiations, and I seriously doubt they've changed their minds since then.

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58 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

 


Leaving aside the hilarious comparisons with the Dutch system you do realise that the uni teams etc are first teams? They are formed to play competitive football with the aim of wining games, trophies etc, this is in no way similar to teams using matches for development and there opponents being told they are sparring partners for teenagers to practice with.

 

Very well said.

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On 3.9.2016 at 21:06, HibeeJibee said:

If you look at the 'B' teams results, how much will this really have "aided their development"? Particularly in the context of R1-R2 being played in August before their season had even started. There were 12 such teams admitted. Half of them lost in R1 so their entire exposure to the opportunity was 90 minutes in a defeat. All of the remainder except Celtic went out in R2 so their entire exposure was 180 minutes with 1 win/1 defeat. Only Celtic met a full-time opponent.

I doubt it will matter, though. Whatever happened, Doncaster etc. would have a defence. If they'd done well, it would've been used to say they deserved their places - not having done well, it will be used to say their participation supposedly isn't doing any harm.

 

On 4.9.2016 at 15:43, LongTimeLurker said:

Think if anything the inability of the U-20 teams to cope with most SPFL teams will remove much of the fear factor over having U-20 teams introduced into the senior grade's pyramid.

I think the line most likely to be taken is that this season has shown the gap between our best youngsters and the top level and that the best way to reduce that gap is to expose them to a higher level of football more often, meaning they will either continue with this cup as it is, or push for the introduction of B teams into the league system.

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