dee_62 Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 The extra tv money and extra teams cancel each other out in terms of early exit clubs. The prize money is much better at the later rounds than it was before though. I'm not sure if you are seriously trying to suggest that motivation for 20's inclusion is the prospect of Premiership teams getting £5k or so prize money out of it? Just saying that in the current climate, any income stream is better than none. I think the motivation for getting the U20s in is to take them on the first step to joining the "grown up" leagues. Again, with the seeding, it's less likely for the lower league teams to realise the financial benefits of higher prize money in the later rounds. We are where we are, so we just get on with it. I'm not convinced it's all been done for the benefit of Scottish football/youth progression though. Mr Doncaster ticking another box on his CV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 35 minutes ago, dee_62 said: Just saying that in the current climate, any income stream is better than none. I think the motivation for getting the U20s in is to take them on the first step to joining the "grown up" leagues. Again, with the seeding, it's less likely for the lower league teams to realise the financial benefits of higher prize money in the later rounds. We are where we are, so we just get on with it. I'm not convinced it's all been done for the benefit of Scottish football/youth progression though. Mr Doncaster ticking another box on his CV. I don't think that is the motivation, nor that there is any remote likelihood of it ever happening. You're right, it is fairly unlikely the lower league sides will realise the extra financial benefits of the later rounds but they aren't suffering financially for it either. As you already pointed out, the prize money for the early rounds is still marginally more than it was before. And some of them will get an extra game or two of gate receipts (Yes I know there will be odd exception such as Arbroath travelling to Inverness u20's and probably costing them more to go than they made in gate). The benefit is more commercial income into Scottish football, with the main beneficiaries being the clubs making the later rounds and the ones in the pyramid outside the SPFL who now get an income they didn't before (the extra income for the 20's sides is comparatively peanuts for the Premiership level sides but again, still something they didn't have before). And if there is a benefit to the youths getting a little more experience of playing senior pros all the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
an86 Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 One that isn't hijacked by the SPL teams and Neil Doncaster would be absolutely fucking ideal. One where you'd have two sets of fans turning up and really wanting to win, rather than one set having a look at their youngsters and barely being arsed about the outcome. One that isn't all about shoehorning the Old Firm into the tournament in the hope that they meet, so that the sponsors, both clubs and the SPFL could have a nice circle w**k about it, whilst nobody else gave a f**k. One that doesn't ludicrously involve teams from other countries or people winning half time penalty shootouts to gain entry to the tournament. One that simply allows smaller clubs to face each other without any infringement of bigger clubs, with both having half a sniff of a good run with a decent draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick1867 Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 4 minutes ago, an86 said: One that isn't hijacked by the SPL teams and Neil Doncaster would be absolutely fucking ideal. One where you'd have two sets of fans turning up and really wanting to win, rather than one set having a look at their youngsters and barely being arsed about the outcome. One that isn't all about shoehorning the Old Firm into the tournament in the hope that they meet, so that the sponsors, both clubs and the SPFL could have a nice circle w**k about it, whilst nobody else gave a f**k. One that doesn't ludicrously involve teams from other countries or people winning half time penalty shootouts to gain entry to the tournament. One that simply allows smaller clubs to face each other without any infringement of bigger clubs, with both having half a sniff of a good run with a decent draw. I bet you if we'd drawn Ayr away you'd have been there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
an86 Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 4 minutes ago, Mick1867 said: I bet you if we'd drawn Ayr away you'd have been there That would have tested my hypocrisy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dee_62 Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 (Yes I know there will be odd exception such as Arbroath travelling to Inverness u20's and probably costing them more to go than they made in gate). If I heard correctly, that match was free entry, so cost only on that one for Arbroath. (Unless they got 40% of pie money) [emoji2]Anyway, home tie against Raith Rovers to look forward to (although I'll be in Malta). Hopefully Forfar TV has the cameras there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parscelona Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Just scrap the entire thing, the League and Scottish Cups are enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 The previous format, although not ideal, gave all clubs outside the Pamperedship a chance of silver wear. Would YOU jump out of a perfectly serviceable aeroplane? That's the worst thing I've ever read on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrman2011 Posted August 18, 2016 Author Share Posted August 18, 2016 Personally I like the format, but it's a missed opportunity to get Tier 5 involved and have a nice round number of 64Seeding is a must Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Think they should split this competition in two now. U-20, SPFL4, HL and LL could be one cup. SPFL2 & 3 and the NI/Wales entrants could be the other. Having the first lot in it, seems like a waste of time given they have near zero chance of winning, so why not let them play all the way through to a national final? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshmallo Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 All Championship teams All League One teams All League Two teams All Lowland League teams All Highland League teams 64 teams. First round seeded and regionalised into North/South. Seeds are Championship/League One/League Two and losing teams from promotion playoffs to League Two from the previous season (eg this year The Shire and Cove). All non-seeds are drawn at home in the first round. This would reinforce the idea of the pyramid and gives all smaller HL/LL teams a "reward" of a guaranteed home game against league opposition every year. Second round onwards is unseeded and isn't regionalised. Tournament completed by November. Final played at the same venue every year - ideally Tynecastle or Easter Road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowhereman Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 All Championship teams All League One teams All League Two teams All Lowland League teams All Highland League teams 64 teams. First round seeded and regionalised into North/South. Seeds are Championship/League One/League Two and losing teams from promotion playoffs to League Two from the previous season (eg this year The Shire and Cove). All non-seeds are drawn at home in the first round. This would reinforce the idea of the pyramid and gives all smaller HL/LL teams a "reward" of a guaranteed home game against league opposition every year. Second round onwards is unseeded and isn't regionalised. Tournament completed by November. Final played at the same venue every year - ideally Tynecastle or Easter Road. Sounds decent but clearly no sponsor or tv company would be remotely interested in that. Or at least that's what we are being led to believe by some Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Given that the all-Scottish competition of 32 clubs failed to secure sufficient sponsorship over the past few years, that is a statement of fact, not an unfounded claim at all. Unless you think that Rothes v Montrose would suddenly have sponsors and TV companies queuing up to throw money at the competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 In comparison to last season, for exiting in R1 we'll have received an extra £500 and a case of bottled water. So lets be clear - it's hardly rolling in cash now. Even winning the thing is only worth £17,000 (IIRC) and there is nothing for being on TV. From my point of view I liked the old format. It was short, open and the only chance for smaller clubs to reach Semi-Finals / Finals and win silverware. I liked them adding in 2 HL and LL teams to make 32, and wouldn't have minded some more being admitted. I'm against 'B' teams as a point of principle, and I dislike it being seeded up to the hilt and the smaller teams having to enter 1, 2 or 3 rounds earlier than others - in particular the Irish and Welsh teams entering later than all SPFL members. There is also no question that it is now harder for smaller clubs to progress due to the seeding and the extra 1/2 rounds to be negotiated. We've also seen some dreadful crowds in the early rounds, worse than would have been seen before; and have seen - and I suspect will probably continue to see - worse examples of players being rested than was seen before. Although I'm not a personal fan of it, I don't feel anything like as strongly about the inclusion of the Irish and Welsh teams as the 'B' teams. If the Irish and Welsh have to stay the following format would be more palatable:R1 (Aug) - 10x SPFL1, 10x SPFL2, 4x HL, 4x LL R2 (Sep) - 10x Championship R3 (Oct) - 2x Irish, 2x Welsh R4 (Nov) etc. or ideally:R1 (Aug) - 10x SPFL1, 10 SPFL2, 8x HL, 8x LL R2 (Sep) - 10x Championship, 2x Irish, 2x Welsh R3 (Oct) etc. or alternatively:R1 (Aug) - 10 SPFL2, 3x HL, 3x LL R2 (Sep) - 10x Championship, 10x SPFL1, 2x Irish, 2x Welsh R3 (Oct) etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiGi Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 HibeeJibee against B teams when he, in fact, has an A and a B team. Eyy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 i'd like to see 64: 30 SPFL, top 5 HL/LL and then the 24 premier Welsh/NI premier teams. I was fed up of the challenge cup originally, but totally opposed to the colt teams as well. Also think Linfield type teams are much more attractive to play as a fan and also as a sponsor they are a much more attractive market to invest sponsorship money in as opposed to every single HL/LL team who play in a public park. Also against junior teams coming in, join the LL/HL if you want the benefits of senior competitions, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tam Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 I feel like that Japanese guy walking out the jungle on a Pacific island to be told the war is over. Just heard on the radio that this cup has Irish and Welsh teams in it! WTF?! Bad enough not to be in the Euros; final nail in the coffin of Scottish football when minor teams from foreign associations walk away with some of our domestic silverware. Can't say I am desperate to go trekking off to Wales ,NI either for ties in this comp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacekid84 Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 2 hours ago, Tam said: I feel like that Japanese guy walking out the jungle on a Pacific island to be told the war is over. Just heard on the radio that this cup has Irish and Welsh teams in it! WTF?! Bad enough not to be in the Euros; final nail in the coffin of Scottish football when minor teams from foreign associations walk away with some of our domestic silverware. Can't say I am desperate to go trekking off to Wales ,NI either for ties in this comp. Im the opposite, would love a tie in north Wales or Belfast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONKMAN Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 North Wales or Belfast please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tam Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 Belfast or any bit of Wales on a wet midweek autumn night! Surely life is hard enough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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