Oliver Burke

[forameus]

2 minutes ago, kenny131 said:

Foruranus was wondering when you were going slither out from under your bridge. And where did I guarantee he would be world class.  If he is then great scotland benefits.   

If I like the sound bites coming from pundits about him big deal it's a forum and it's nice to talk up a player rather than the constant negativity that leaks out your gums.

Now away and wait under your bridge.

I've been posting quite a bit - you not written all of them down in your wee tear-stained book?

You didn't guarantee it, that was me being facetious.  Most normal people would've gotten that from the tone.  But what you did do is attack me when I had the temerity to suggest that he might not be World Class.  Hence, I'd say you were suggesting he would be.  

[kenny131]

Just now, forameus said:

I've been posting quite a bit - you not written all of them down in your wee tear-stained book?

You didn't guarantee it, that was me being facetious.  Most normal people would've gotten that from the tone.  But what you did do is attack me when I had the temerity to suggest that he might not be World Class.  Hence, I'd say you were suggesting he would be.  

So basically you missed me so much you were looking for a bite.  

[forameus]

2 minutes ago, kenny131 said:

So basically you missed me so much you were looking for a bite.  

No.  Basically I just totally disagreed with you on the point and thought it was worth a mention.  You know, opinions and that.

But you "bit", so...good for you I guess?

[Aufc]

Nope  only player I Slagg off is Chris Martin.  And I am 100% right on him being pump

Do you watch him often?

[kenny131]

39 minutes ago, Aufc said:

 

Do you watch him often?

 

No and I don't intend too either as he belongs on a farm lifting hay bails.  

[Aufc]

No and I don't intend too either as he belongs on a farm lifting hay bails.  

Basically sums up half the tartan army. This is the difference

Chris Martin - most fans not seen much of him but will judge him based on a few sub appearances. Hailed as shite

Jordan Rhodes - most fans not seen much of him. Has not really played that much for scotland. When he has played, he has been very average. Hailed as the messiah

[F_T_Y]

Judging both on their performances in a scotland shirt, rhodes has done much better. Martin has looked slow and unfit at international level. But you can't argue with his goal scoring record in the championship. Or rhodes record for that matter.

[dogmc]

Judging both on their performances in a scotland shirt, rhodes has done much better. Martin has looked slow and unfit at international level. But you can't argue with his goal scoring record in the championship. Or rhodes record for that matter.

In Martins last 40 games he has only returned 7 goals. He brings absolutely nothing to our squad

[Savage Henry]

13 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

His assist last night was a ten yard pass to someone who hit an absolute screamer from 25 yards.

Let's get some perspective in here please.

The best goal I've ever seen Scotland score, Matt Ritchie, got a ten yard assist from James Forrest who was actually aiming for Scott Brown and sclaffed it completely.  So let's not knock these things.

[forameus]

Chris Martin isn't helped in a Scotland shirt by being thrown on late in the day, usually when we're chasing a game.  Agree he has looked pretty rank rotten whenever he's played for us, but you can't argue with him having a good record at Championship level.

[Gordopolis]

10 minutes ago, forameus said:

Chris Martin isn't helped in a Scotland shirt by being thrown on late in the day, usually when we're chasing a game.  Agree he has looked pretty rank rotten whenever he's played for us, but you can't argue with him having a good record at Championship level.

Maybe one for the stattos - but what is Chris Martin's Scotland appearance record? I know it's 8 caps and 1 goal, but I think he has had a couple of starts out of that and I'm sure most of his sub appearances have been more than 'a few minutes at the end'.

 

 

[forameus]

1 minute ago, Gordopolis said:

Maybe one for the stattos - but what is Chris Martin's Scotland appearance record? I know it's 8 caps and 1 goal, but I think he has had a couple of starts out of that and I'm sure most of his sub appearances have been more than 'a few minutes at the end'.

Ok, so it's not "the last few minutes", but I didn't think he was getting big chunks of games.

As far as I can tell, he got...

9 minutes against Germany (81st minute sub)

76 minutes against Gibraltar (started, off at 76 minutes, 1 goal)

30 minutes against Denmark (60th minute sub)

1 minute against Georgia (89th minute sub)

19 minutes against Poland (71st minute sub)

34 minutes against Ireland (56th minute sub)

45 minutes against England (started, half time sub)

45 minutes against Nigeria (half time sub)
 

So yeah, not the last few minutes, but there's a pattern here.  Take out the friendlies, and he's thrown in as a last resort.  Against Germany he gets 9 minutes to try and turn it around when we're chasing shadows.  Against Georgia he gets 1 minute to try and turn it around).  Against Poland he's thrown on I guess to be a more physical option to try and protect our lead.  I just don't think he's going to be at his best in those situations, hence why he looks absolutely pish.  He's clearly not as bad as he's sometimes made out when he plays for us.  Not that that matters - he could score 40 for Derby, doesn't really matter if he doesn't do it for us.

[kenny131]

3 hours ago, forameus said:

Ok, so it's not "the last few minutes", but I didn't think he was getting big chunks of games.

As far as I can tell, he got...

9 minutes against Germany (81st minute sub)

76 minutes against Gibraltar (started, off at 76 minutes, 1 goal)

30 minutes against Denmark (60th minute sub)

1 minute against Georgia (89th minute sub)

19 minutes against Poland (71st minute sub)

34 minutes against Ireland (56th minute sub)

45 minutes against England (started, half time sub)

45 minutes against Nigeria (half time sub)
 

So yeah, not the last few minutes, but there's a pattern here.  Take out the friendlies, and he's thrown in as a last resort.  Against Germany he gets 9 minutes to try and turn it around when we're chasing shadows.  Against Georgia he gets 1 minute to try and turn it around).  Against Poland he's thrown on I guess to be a more physical option to try and protect our lead.  I just don't think he's going to be at his best in those situations, hence why he looks absolutely pish.  He's clearly not as bad as he's sometimes made out when he plays for us.  Not that that matters - he could score 40 for Derby, doesn't really matter if he doesn't do it for us.

Nice stat finding.  More minutes than I thought.  Still he is rank rotten for us and if his role is to be thrown on to save a game i could not think of worse tactic than him being so immobile and for a big a fella he throws himself to the floor too easy

[Aufc]

What are rhodes stats for scotland?

[forameus]

15 minutes ago, Aufc said:

What are rhodes stats for scotland?

vs Northern Ireland - came on in 63rd minute
vs Gibraltar - came on in 66th minute
vs England - came on in 82nd minute
vs Belgium - came on in 63rd minute
vs Australia - started, subbed off 67th minute, scored 1
vs Serbia - came on in 81st minute
vs Macedonia - came on in 66th minute
vs Luxembourg - started, subbed off 89th minute, scored 2
vs Estonia - came on at half time
vs Wales - came on 89th minute
vs Serbia - started, off 80th minute
vs Croatia - came on 64th minute
vs Cyprus - came on 87th minute

Very similar story to Chris Martin really, only Rhodes has been around a bit longer.  Both are used in the same role, and neither has been particularly startling.  Both have scored against diddies when given a chance, and both have flattered to deceive against diddies when given the chance.
 

[1320Lichtie]

vs Northern Ireland - came on in 63rd minute
vs Gibraltar - came on in 66th minute
vs England - came on in 82nd minute
vs Belgium - came on in 63rd minute
vs Australia - started, subbed off 67th minute, scored 1
vs Serbia - came on in 81st minute
vs Macedonia - came on in 66th minute
vs Luxembourg - started, subbed off 89th minute, scored 2
vs Estonia - came on at half time
vs Wales - came on 89th minute
vs Serbia - started, off 80th minute
vs Croatia - came on 64th minute
vs Cyprus - came on 87th minute

Very similar story to Chris Martin really, only Rhodes has been around a bit longer.  Both are used in the same role, and neither has been particularly startling.  Both have scored against diddies when given a chance, and both have flattered to deceive against diddies when given the chance.
 

Did you find my post on Rhodes?!

[Frankie S]

Here's Leigh Griffiths stats for Scotland

21 mins v Luxembourg (69th minute sub)

64 mins v Croatia (started, subbed after 64 mins)

17 mins v England (73rd minute sub)

68 mins v Belgium (started, subbed after 68 mins)

30 mins v Qatar (60th minute sub)

15 mins v Georgia (75 minute sub)

60 mins v Denmark (started, subbed after 60 mins)

So, Griffiths has 275 minutes on the field for Scotland (compared with 259 for Martin), has scored 0 goals compared to Martin's 1, has been subbed before the 70 minute mark in every game that he's started and, like Martin, has struggled to make any kind of impact at all. Yet Martin is clearly a donkey that needs to be jettisoned ASAP and Griffiths is the great new hope. As ever, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

You can call up stats for all Scotland's strikers to make them look, well, not very good. That's because they're all much of a muchness. Decent at club level, but none of them really look the part at international level. It's not just Martin that has looked out of his depth.

[Gordopolis]

1 minute ago, forameus said:

vs Northern Ireland - came on in 63rd minute
vs Gibraltar - came on in 66th minute
vs England - came on in 82nd minute
vs Belgium - came on in 63rd minute
vs Australia - started, subbed off 67th minute, scored 1
vs Serbia - came on in 81st minute
vs Macedonia - came on in 66th minute
vs Luxembourg - started, subbed off 89th minute, scored 2
vs Estonia - came on at half time
vs Wales - came on 89th minute
vs Serbia - started, off 80th minute
vs Croatia - came on 64th minute
vs Cyprus - came on 87th minute

Very similar story to Chris Martin really, only Rhodes has been around a bit longer.  Both are used in the same role, and neither has been particularly startling.  Both have scored against diddies when given a chance, and both have flattered to deceive against diddies when given the chance.
 

Pretty much agree, and I think it's the fact that neither of them knocks spots of the other that leads to folk getting hacked off at Martin being called up near enough every time and Rhodes not even making the squad. I actually feel sorry for Martin that he's on the receiving end of the Rhodes backlash.

P.S. I wouldn't class Australia as diddies. Qualified for the last 3 world cups and did pretty well (apart from the last one). They're not world-beaters but they're not bad either (their squad list is actually quite surprising - a number of players at decent clubs). It was the goal vs Aus that made me think Rhodes was totally cut out for Scotland. IIRC we were playing 1 up front and it was a lovely finish - made his own space and read the deep cross before it was sent in.

But that's just one goal and one strong performance from 4 years ago, so it's hard to use that as a reason to pick him for Scotland. I reckon if he played for Boro in the EPL and looked a bit average or sh*te it might help people accept that he's not a 'Messiah' - might even take some of the pressure off him and Strachan.

[Gordopolis]

2 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

 

Did you find my post on Rhodes?!

 

Ah - I knew someone had posted this recently

[Gordopolis]

2 minutes ago, Frankie S said:

Here's Leigh Griffiths stats for Scotland

21 mins v Luxembourg (69th minute sub)

64 mins v Croatia (started, subbed after 64 mins)

17 mins v England (73rd minute sub)

68 mins v Belgium (started, subbed after 68 mins)

30 mins v Qatar (60th minute sub)

15 mins v Georgia (75 minute sub)

60 mins v Denmark (started, subbed after 60 mins)

So, Griffiths has 275 minutes on the field for Scotland (compared with 259 for Martin), has scored 0 goals compared to Martin's 1, has been subbed before the 70 minute mark in every game that he's started and, like Martin, has struggled to make any kind of impact at all. Yet Martin is clearly a donkey that needs to be jettisoned ASAP and Griffiths is the great new hope. As ever, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

You can call up stats for all Scotland's strikers to make them look, well, not very good. That's because they're all much of a muchness. Decent at club level, but none of them really look the part at international level. It's not just Martin that has looked out of his depth.

Where did you get the stats, out of interest?