New BBC Documentary Series - Scottish Fitba is Pish

[mjw]

It was the clubs who ditched the sky deal, roger was just a figurehead and Rangers were public enemy number one for trying to oppose it.

 

 

Eh, think you'll find Aberdeen, Celtic and Rangers said to stick with Sky as they were tried and tested.

Public enemy number three then?

[WhiteRoseKillie]

Right, I've watched this now - and it's a lot longer than three minutes....

I found it pretty interesting, and reasonably fairly balanced. The treatment of the sectarian issue was somewhat disingenuous - to say that the problem didn't just exist at one club is true, but doesn't exactly give an accurate picture. Those dressing-room sing-songs at ibrox - surely any decent fan would cringe at that?

The green trog whining outside parkhead that they hadn't signed a player for a year made me laugh - standing outside a brand new stadium rather than the ruin they'd had a couple of years before. Entitlement, obviously, not just existing at one club either.

MoJo's fúcking jumper!

Once again pretty pissed off with the leniency of the punishment for poaching TB. Bastárds. Also, wee niggle, why "another club"? Why not just say "Kilmarnock"?

The mergers - I was pretty au fait with the Edinburgh carry-on, but I honestly can't remember the Dundee one being that close to fruition.

"Forty-two senior clubs" was a wee bit of a faux pas, but hardly important - the point was the same.

Actually laughed out loud at the final shot - wee pranksters at the BBC! Here's hoping "think ae the kids" Highlights man makes an appearance as well!

 

An hour not totally wasted - will watch again.

[sfha]

Just watched the first episode on catch-up. To be honest I agree with everything said on it!

[jimmy boo]

Your dad sounds like an arsehole.

Harsh.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

.
- John Boyle, who took the first Scottish top flight club into admin inlivingmemory.

Hibs were in the top flight when they went into administration but your point stands

[Hammer Jag]

Some really despicable people featured in that episode. People you hoped you'd seen the last of. Roger Mitchell, Jim Traynor, David Murray and Archie McPherson.

No surprise to see the Rangers kitman Jimmy Bell featuring so prominently in the sectarian singing clip. He's vile little bigot.

[Winston Churchill]

I've never forgiven Mr Mercer for taking his jackboot off the neck of the Lochend Irish.

[Diamonds are Forever]

21 hours ago, ICTChris said:

I think the culture of Scottish football couldn't deal with a lot of the 'big money' owners, they just rolled over and let them tickle their tummies. Administrators, fans, the media - no-one *really* questioned even someone like Brooks Mileson, let alone David Murray. The press just loved the big money glamour of it, as did a lot of the fans. The administrators were too insular and parochial to really get a grip of things and make sure that their member clubs were being run properly and to enforce rules, even against the biggest clubs.

 

The problem is that working in the media requires access and contacts, and if you criticise you lose that, so you end up with them getting an easy ride. Murray and his 'succulent lamb' is the epitome of that. It's probably made worse by the fact we are a relatively small nation, and pissing one club off - particularly the Old Firm - means you are going to struggle to get the stories that your paper demands.

[ICTChris]

 

The problem is that working in the media requires access and contacts, and if you criticise you lose that, so you end up with them getting an easy ride. Murray and his 'succulent lamb' is the epitome of that. It's probably made worse by the fact we are a relatively small nation, and pissing one club off - particularly the Old Firm - means you are going to struggle to get the stories that your paper demands.

That's a fair point. The diminishing power of the press also aids this - it doesn't matter as much as it used to if Rangers don't give this paper or that a seat in the press box.

[tongue_tied_danny]

3 hours ago, Hammer Jag said:

 

No surprise to see the Rangers kitman Jimmy Bell featuring so prominently in the sectarian singing clip. He's vile little bigot.

Was he the ageing jolly boy john lookalike in the middle?

[The Ginger Prince]

I've never forgiven Mr Mercer for taking his jackboot off the neck of the Lochend Irish.

Shan that the fat Tory c**t died before we did.

[Diamonds are Forever]

21 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

 

That's a fair point. The diminishing power of the press also aids this - it doesn't matter as much as it used to if Rangers don't give this paper or that a seat in the press box.

 

 

I agree, plus I think there is now more kudos in being 'alternative' and challenging clubs. Nowadays you've more chance of a making a name for yourself uncovering some dodgy owner than by sucking up to them. Plus after recent years people are now more on the lookout for dodgy owners etc, in a way that they didn't use to.

[Monkey Tennis]

3 hours ago, Hammer Jag said:

Some really despicable people featured in that episode. People you hoped you'd seen the last of. Roger Mitchell, Jim Traynor, David Murray and Archie McPherson.

No surprise to see the Rangers kitman Jimmy Bell featuring so prominently in the sectarian singing clip. He's vile little bigot.

I'm interested, given that Mitchell is involved, to see how the entire SPL era is addressed.  

It seems from the how the first programme ended, that we're heading towards an examination of that body, as well as what became of Rangers.  

Mitchell for me, is one of the leading villains of the entire story.  The style of the programme seems to be to give those taking part a free reign.  Things are likely to get thrown at my telly.

[HibeeJibee]

I get the feeling Mitchell is trying to rehabilitate his reputation. Hence appearing on shows like this and coming out with "revelations" and "exclusives" of supposed nearly but not quite sensations, and generally being ready at the end of the microphone to pass comment on his time in charge.


On the crowd thing, I posted this ranking on another forum a few days ago btw. Interesting:


Average attendance in each league at each top division game expressed as a percentage of population:

0.853% - Faroe Islands
0.334% - Iceland
0.290% - Cyprus
0.179% - Scotland
0.130% - Switzerland
0.129% - Norway
0.127% - Denmark
0.114% - Netherlands
0.105% - Belgium
0.104% - Portugal
0.101% - Sweden
0.090% - Montenegro
0.082% - Israel
0.078% - Luxembourg
0.075% - Slovenia
0.072% - Austria
0.066% - England
0.061% - Spain
0.057% - Croatia
0.055% - Moldova
0.053% - Germany
0.051% - Albania
0.051% - Northern Ireland
0.048% - Czech Republic
0.044% - Slovakia
0.042% - Bosnia & Herzegovina
0.040% - Finland
0.039% - FYR Macedonia
0.036% - Greece
0.036% - Ireland
0.036% - Italy
0.035% - Serbia
0.031% - France
0.029% - Bulgaria
0.026% - Azerbaijan
0.026% - Hungary
0.024% - Estonia
0.024% - Latvia
0.023% - Poland
0.021% - Georgia
0.020% - Armenia
0.020% - Kazakhstan
0.017% - Belarus
0.017% - Lithuania
0.016% - Romania
0.011% - Ukraine
0.010% - Turkey
0.010% - Wales
0.007% - Russia

No figures for Andorra, Gibraltar, Kosovo, Malta or San Marino

[RandomGuy.]

I'd assumed Mitchell was dead before he popped up on this.

Shame.

[Ludo*1]

Roger Mitchell is a fantasist. We did get into discussions about a merger and whilst Jim McLean may well have fired in proposals about kit, name etc, to give the Marrs their credit, they dismissed it out of hand.

We were hours from going out of business - Rangers style - when the Marrs stepped in. They had to look at absolutely every avenue. Jim McLean wanted to talk and had a proposition - fair enough they looked into it - but I don't buy that it was ever a realistic deal and Peter Marr has dismissed Mitchell's allegations a few times.

The Marrs are Dees at the end of the day - no fan of the club would leave them at the beck and call of their rivals. The Marrs took us away from disaster and led us into another one and are rightly criticised for that, but merging with United was never close.

[jessmagic]

On 27/08/2016 at 18:37, ICTChris said:

I think the culture of Scottish football couldn't deal with a lot of the 'big money' owners, they just rolled over and let them tickle their tummies. Administrators, fans, the media - no-one *really* questioned even someone like Brooks Mileson, let alone David Murray. The press just loved the big money glamour of it, as did a lot of the fans. The administrators were too insular and parochial to really get a grip of things and make sure that their member clubs were being run properly and to enforce rules, even against the biggest clubs.

This is a good point.

I would suggest that at the first sniff of some money all the rules suddenly seemed to go out of the window. Believe it or not many people view the Scottish game as  a precious commodity that should be looked after and left in as good a condition as possible for the next generation of fans. Rules should be stringently enforced even when unpopular with fans, the media etc. etc. etc. 

Rules should be enforced impartially at all times, the SFA/SPFL/SPL whatever, are meant to be the guardians of the game they should be above public posturing from the media or mysterious venture capitalist millionaires. If something seems to be too good to be true in Scottish football then it will be. 

To expand on this point further the issue is that when one club gets to bend the rules it leads to an arms raise where all the other clubs have to invest and invest and invest to try and keep up. Look at my own club during the 90s and our attempts to keep up with them - stupid expensive signings that crippled us for a generation. It goes against the very nature of fans, but it has to be said kudos to Fergus and the biscuit tin mentality. 

[7-2]

On 27/08/2016 at 18:37, ICTChris said:

 too insular and parochial 

And there we have it. Scottish football in a nutshell.

[Monkey Tennis]

2 hours ago, 7-2 said:

And there we have it. Scottish football in a nutshell.

There's a decent piece in The Scotsman in the wake of the programme, that says the problem was we weren't parochial enough.  I tend to agree with it.

[7-2]

I was going to avoid this given it was a BBC Glasgow programme so it was bound to be a programme about the Old Firm dressed up as Scottish. However, given the good reviews fro a number of decent diddy posters, I thought it was worth looking at, which I've just done.

How wrong. One or two of the other diddy reviewers were spot on. This was just the usual BBC Old Firm fare with a few non bigot brothers moments thrown in. From the very off you knew it was going to be the same...Scotland's game, starting with two of England's greatest manager. who were Scottish, then straight into 'the Rangers.' That is indeed the BBC's view of Scotland game. Sectarianism addressed but excused and brushed off. 

They started it in the 80's, a high point for many as it was the horrifically called New Firm period but was that really discussed? No. Minimal Aberdeen mentions. It was only the starting point for the bigots massive spending, nothing else. What is mostly disappointing about this is not the predictable BBC presentation but the acceptance of numerous diddy fans that this was 'Scottish football' The brainwashing has indeed worked.

As for the bigoted singing. This is of course, illegal. people doing what was supposedly 'acceptable in the 80's' are now paying for it. Will anything be done about the perpetrators by Police Scotland or the SFA, especially about those still involved in the game? Will it f**k. 'Scotland's game' will never change.