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New BBC Documentary Series - Scottish Fitba is Pish


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8 minutes ago, Ranaldo Bairn said:

Am I going crazy here, or did I mis-remember a story?

I thought Don Kichenbrand was Protestant, but married a Catholic, that's why he was released, did he convert or something?

You may be right, although I think the story - which appears to be corroborated by what little an online search turns-up - is that Kitchenbrand was Roman Catholic, as were his family, but that he either decided to keep it quiet himself or was advised to keep it quiet. Presumably this meant he wasn't attending RC services and it's even claimed he joined the Masons! He then got a Catholic girlfriend / fiancé / similar which either caused problems in itself, or let the cat out of the bag.


His career statistics for Rangers are somewhat strange - made his debut on 15th October 1955, and played 27 consecutive competitive games (23 league, 3 Scottish Cup, 1 Glasgow Cup) and scored an impressive 27 goals between then and March 24th. He also played in 4 challenge fixtures against Manchester City, the British Army, Arsenal and San Lorenzo scoring 2 goals. After that he hardly featured. Played and scored in a Glasgow Charity Cup tie in May and all the games in a 5-game post-season friendly tour of Spain.

In the whole of 1956-57 his only game was a Glasgow Charity Cup tie in May where he scored.

Then he came back into the frame briefly early in 1957-58... between August and November he played in 11 games (4 league, 3 League Cup, 2 European Cup, 2 Glasgow Cup) and scored 8 goals. After that he didn't feature again - and after a few months he was transferred to Sunderland in March 1958.

In his first season he scored 5 in 1 game against QotS.

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13 minutes ago, banana said:

Decent stuff.

Remember Celtic fans booing Fergus McCann at the time, perhaps the bizarrest, backstabbing mass tantrum in Scottish football history.

Unreal stuff really.  Celtic and Rangers fans brains are wired differently to normal peoples.

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1 hour ago, Tartantony said:

Even then, you're still talking pish. I actually have a video of 3 Aberdeen fans at Firhill last season being very bigoted against Rangers fans. Have you ever been to a Hearts v Celtic match? If not, go to one and then come back and tell me its ridiculous.

I fully accept it is a problem mainly attributed to the OF, but to suggest it doesn't exist within other clubs is either mental or complete ignorance.

Any chance you could post this video that you actually have?

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I quite enjoyed the programme, due to it being a history of the last 30 years the gruesome twosome will feature strongly. It was all about the money and how more money transformed the Scottish game not always for the better because of imports from abroad. The same will happen in England as has happened north of the border, more and more imports push local talent further down the ladder and they don't develop and the national team is not as good as the national teams in the past.

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1 hour ago, banana said:

Decent stuff.

Remember Celtic fans booing Fergus McCann at the time, perhaps the bizarrest, backstabbing mass tantrum in Scottish football history.

I think it has a great deal to do with mind set.

As we saw with Rangers, very few of their fans seem capable of departing from whatever the received orthodoxy is.  Whether it's boycotting Tannadice for reasons that can't be articulated, or booing the literal saviour of the club as he unveils a title flag for reasons that cannot be understood; the tribal, group response of so many OF fans means that a great many do bizarre stupid things.

Hindsight is not required to see that the fans' treatment of Fergus was ridiculous.  It was absolutely that way at the time.  

Cretins.

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1 hour ago, HibeeJibee said:

You may be right, although I think the story - which appears to be corroborated by what little an online search turns-up - is that Kitchenbrand was Roman Catholic, as were his family, but that he either decided to keep it quiet himself or was advised to keep it quiet. Presumably this meant he wasn't attending RC services and it's even claimed he joined the Masons! He then got a Catholic girlfriend / fiancé / similar which either caused problems in itself, or let the cat out of the bag.


His career statistics for Rangers are somewhat strange - made his debut on 15th October 1955, and played 27 consecutive competitive games (23 league, 3 Scottish Cup, 1 Glasgow Cup) and scored an impressive 27 goals between then and March 24th. He also played in 4 challenge fixtures against Manchester City, the British Army, Arsenal and San Lorenzo scoring 2 goals. After that he hardly featured. Played and scored in a Glasgow Charity Cup tie in May and all the games in a 5-game post-season friendly tour of Spain.

In the whole of 1956-57 his only game was a Glasgow Charity Cup tie in May where he scored.

Then he came back into the frame briefly early in 1957-58... between August and November he played in 11 games (4 league, 3 League Cup, 2 European Cup, 2 Glasgow Cup) and scored 8 goals. After that he didn't feature again - and after a few months he was transferred to Sunderland in March 1958.

In his first season he scored 5 in 1 game against QotS.

I'd thought it was not known at the time at all and only emerged years later.  Kitchenbrand himself must have kept quiet for this to be the case.

The weird career path that saw a free scoring forward stop getting games however, suggests that something might have emerged then to upset his employers.

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8 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

I think it has a great deal to do with mind set.

As we saw with Rangers, very few of their fans seem capable of departing from whatever the received orthodoxy is.  Whether it's boycotting Tannadice for reasons that can't be articulated, or booing the literal saviour of the club as he unveils a title flag for reasons that cannot be understood; the tribal, group response of so many OF fans means that a great many do bizarre stupid things.

Hindsight is not required to see that the fans' treatment of Fergus was ridiculous.  It was absolutely that way at the time.  

Cretins.

However if Fergus had listened to the fans it would have been an arms race to destruction probably a lot sooner with the mess that was the SPL. Imagine had both clubs gone into administration within a year of each other. Us diddys can only dream of what could have happened

Weegie-geddon

 

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4 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

That was particularly true during the sectarianism section: it was constantly being qualified as "a problem linked to no one club" and "a feature present across the Scottish game" and so on. I imagine that's because they haven't the determination to say it was a problem very largely confined to 2 clubs, certainly by the 1990s.

You see, that is something that drives me mad generally, but I really didn't think that last night's programme was very guilty of it at all.

Is that "feature present across the Scottish game" part a quote, or paraphrasing?  

I actually thought the "problem linked to no one club" bit was really just a step away from saying it's all Rangers, towards acknowledging Celtic's part in it.

If it really wanted to peddle the dishonest line about a widespread issue, the show could have quoted the misleading arrest figures under the new legislation, or shown some random from another club shouting something offensive.

The feeling I got though was that this was very much being portrayed as an OF issue.

 

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19 hours ago, Diamonds are Forever said:

Jim Traynor crawling out from under his rock was the worst part of that programme. I've never understood why in Scotland the 'too many foreign imports' argument seems to be a perfectly acceptable point to make, when if you made that same 'argument' about any other industry in Scotland you'd rightly be classed as a horrible xenophobe.

Foreign players did not cause clubs to rack up debt and go bust, paying players (from Scotland, and abroad) inflated salaries chasing pipe dreams is what caused the damage. The nationality of the player is totally irrelevant.

It also paints them all as useless shite when so many were excellent players.

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