"Scotland Has Too Many Clubs" - Ann Budge

[PauloPerth]

She ran an IT business for years, and is obviously a good business person, but why on earth should she be treated as some kind of expert on what is right for Scottish football?  Its bizarre.  She's come out with an opinion which has absolutely no basis or foundation in sound reasoning.

Is she of the naïve opinion that if, for example, you do away with Montrose, Arbroath, Forfar and Brechin, you would get an Angus superclub that would get an attendance of the 4 clubs combined?  Its nonsense to think this, all you would do is lose many supporters from our sport.  Clyde, Livingston, Gretna, have all shown in different ways that you can't just start a brand new club (I realise Clyde are the same club, but the concept was still to get a league team in a new town to tap into a bigger population) and suddenly bang you're attracting huge crowds and competing at the top level.  Or that if you scrap Livi and Edinburgh City, an extra couple of thousand fans would watch Hearts or Hibs?  The reason so many people watch football in Scotland is largely based on tradition; if you started from scratch now you would struggle to attract anywhere near the same crowds.

Youth football already has an elite level, with strict criteria about which clubs/ academies can participate alongside one another, so this factor wouldn't benefit from a reduction in clubs either. 

The voting and share of tv/ sponsorship money have already been mentioned, in that they are already massively weighted in favour of the big clubs.

Just an arrogant assertion that 'we all know there are too many clubs in Scotland' is poor from someone in her new position.

I do agree with her on fan ownership being a good thing, but not fan management though.

[HibeeJibee]

3 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

So why do you think this crops up so often?

I think it's just a go-to idea that has become engrained in a lot of people's heads... Most popularly it's given by the "England have 92 clubs, we have 42 clubs, what's that all about, lol" line of thought, which would be about as relevant as me being serious with my Maltese point earlier. Without context the simple headline figures aren't relevant.

It's a fact that the part-time clubs no longer have a significant voice in decision-making or take a significant portion of revenue.

If there is any real theory behind it I suspect it's an idea that crowds at the full-time clubs would improve; that 20, 22 or 24 clubs can be "sleeker" or "more marketable"; and a belief that part-time clubs hold back youth development. All of which is highly dubious.

[Ya Bezzer!]

'There are too many clubs in Scotland' is a great phrase for weeding out the bawbag brained cunty business folk that have absolutely fucked Scottish football.

See 'SPL', for the single worst thing to ever happen to the organisation of football in Scotland. 

[vikingTON]

19 minutes ago, 53_and_counting said:

shes probably right in that given our population and therefore % of population that will follow football clubs, we have too many, however they are here,

Except for the critical fact that Scottish football is attended by a far higher percentage of the country's population than any comparable European league. Which means that Scottish football can support just as many clubs as Portugal; a country with a population of 10.4 million but the same level of attendances as Scotland across the board, and exactly the same number of 'senior' football clubs: 42 (with a handful of B teams making up the numbers).

http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn.htm

A country that also just so happens to be the European champions - if you're the sort of loser who thinks that club football should be subjected to the whims of the utterly dogshit international version of the sport. To conclude then: there's absolutely no evidence to support her moronic comments, leaving aside the issue of whether any proposed solution would be effective. There is no problem to be solved. 

Edited August 7, 2016 by vikingTON

[PauloPerth]

21 minutes ago, 53_and_counting said:

wonder if she thinks that by binning 22 clubs or greatly reducing what competitions they play in (effectively binning them anyway) that their fans will simply pop along to the nearest club and follow them

not a fucking chance, shes probably right in that given our population and therefore % of population that will follow football clubs, we have too many, however they are here, have been for years and years and will be here so long as there are fans to follow them and these fans deserve way more respect, the national game never struggled in the mid 20th century onwards with this amount of clubs, so whats changed now

Agree. I was typing out my long-winded reply and missed your post... I wasn't just nicking your point, honest!

[invergowrie arab]

I didnt take from the interview that she thought we had too many clubs but that we have too many with an input into the league. She was pretty much suggesting an SPFL 1 and 2.

HJ's point about the board is a complete red herring, the board dont make the big decisions they come up with proposals that member clubs vote on.

 

 

Edited August 7, 2016 by invergowrie arab

[54_and_counting]

3 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said:

I didnt take from the interview that she thought we had too many clubs but that we have too many with an input into the top league. She was pretty much suggesting an SPFL 1 and 2.

HJ's point about the board is a complete red herring, the board dont make the big decisions they come up with proposals that member clubs vote on.

 

 

tbh we've seen how badly the idiots in charge of the top league ran it for years, id argue that input from the lower division can help keep them in check, remember the whole choosing setanta over sky nonsense, or the recent chance to change the voting rights across the board etc

[D.A.F.C]

I think the setup is fine other than in the top two leagues your stadium should be at least fit to watch football in some comfort.

Full time should be optional but I would have all seated stadiums and facilities for disabled people and decent toilets and catering.

Below the championship I would localise it and have open entry for any team. Junior or senior.

[HibeeJibee]

17 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said:

I didnt take from the interview that she thought we had too many clubs but that we have too many with an input into the league. She was pretty much suggesting an SPFL 1 and 2.

HJ's point about the board is a complete red herring, the board dont make the big decisions they come up with proposals that member clubs vote on.

How big are we talking? Board now control everything about both cups, the day-to-day operation and the commercial activities. Even the voting system is heavily weighted toward the big clubs... nothing can pass without 11-1 approval of Premiership clubs, and 75% approval of Premiership & Championship clubs.

What "big decision" have small clubs blocked since SPFL began? What "big decision" do Premiership & Championship want that small clubs would block? If the answer is putting them out of SPFL that's a circular argument.

[1320Lichtie]

I think the setup is fine other than in the top two leagues your stadium should be at least fit to watch football in some comfort.

Full time should be optional but I would have all seated stadiums and facilities for disabled people and decent toilets and catering.

Below the championship I would localise it and have open entry for any team. Junior or senior.

This localise it stuff is an absolute nonsense.

Why?? Can someone explain. Funny how it's fans of clubs not in the bottom 2 leagues saying this. There's absolutely zero desire for it from anybody at any club in the bottom 2 leagues for that, fans, players, club officials, no one...

Like I say time and time again if that was to happen fans would stop going. Nobody is interested in that. There is absolutely no problem that needs to be addressed. The only one was relegation from the 4th tier, that's now in place..

[itzdrk]

I actually don't think the SPFL has enough clubs. There are at the very least another two needed. 

[Tulloch Gorum]

I want to watch my team compete, at whatever diddy level we happen to be in.  I want to watch us grow and look to challenge at a higher level if and when we earn the right to do so.  I would have no interest in watching us play kids from big teams so that my team can "help" to develop Kilmarnock or Partick Thistle.  

[Ned Nederlander]

All we really need is some Welsh and Norn Irish clubs.

[Sergeant Wilson]

7 hours ago, Ned Nederlander said:

All we really need is some Welsh and Norn Irish clubs.

Reminds me of the time when we considered bidding for the Euros but didn't have enough stadiums, so we had joint bid with two countries who had none.

[Newbornbairn]

Two less clubs in Glasgow would improve Scottish football and Scottish society no end.

[Mybitchunderprotest]

I think the setup is fine other than in the top two leagues your stadium should be at least fit to watch football in some comfort.

Full time should be optional but I would have all seated stadiums and facilities for disabled people and decent toilets and catering.

Below the championship I would localise it and have open entry for any team. Junior or senior.

Because using stadia as the criteria for top flight entry worked so well the last time the league tried it.

You don't like sitting on a shitty wooden bench, or standing exposed to the elements for 90 minutes then go to the fucking cinema.

[Hedgecutter]

The only thing I can possibly think of here is some flawed idea that if numerous teams merged then individual clubs would command greater attendances, therefore potentially being able to attract a better standard of player to the Scottish game.

[Poet of the Macabre]

I like Ann Budge but her comments were ignorant, misguided and moronic. Worrying that views like those are helping shape the game in Scotland. Think she should just stick to Hearts and not interfere in things she has no clue about.

D.A.F.C's post about all-seater stadiums is almost just as pish though.

[flyfifer48]

She has an opinion that's  everyone's  right my opinion is her opinion is a lot of shite.She is a 5 min wonder who knows little about  football (she has Craig Levine picking her team, I rest my case) I hope the real supporters of Hearts who are proping up the club they love by their direct debit thus giving this thing power see through her.I am sure she doesn't speak for them. Goodness the "blazers" better watch out too, the 'blue rinse', twin set and pearls' brigade is on the move.Finally,  was it not those same teams she thinks should be the backbone of Scottish football who have shafted local companies and supporters through their inability to run or develop the clubs. Hearts being in the vanguard of dishonesty  but not alone Dundee, Dunfermline, etc spring to mind Budgie your a virus Gtf.

[Jimmy85]

11 hours ago, Cream Cheese said:

I agree with her actually. There are too many teams deemed "professional" in Scotland. They should start by ridding us of all the cheating b*****ds, such as Hearts for example. Incurring millions upon millions of debt, then refusing to repay back those that you owe, despite somehow finding the money to prevent you from going bust. They're the unacceptable face of Capitalism.

 

Agreed. Cheating c***s.