Why no polls?

[strichener]

On 31/07/2016 at 23:54, welshbairn said:

Any military action taken by the EU collectively would require the agreement of every member (Article 42, Paragraph 2.). So it's meaningless. 

This isn't the case at all.  The policy has to be agreed unanimously but not each military act.

The EU has the same requirement as NATO in terms of mutual protection.

[drs]

On ‎31‎/‎07‎/‎2016 at 15:01, John Lambies Doos said:

Imagine being booted out of the EU against our will and more nuclear WMD coming to alba cause it's not safe in England. ...plus tory govs for the foreseeable and polls stay static

what a servile grovelling lot the no voters are. .. especially the labour (who are utterly finished ) ones

 

Imagine all that AND still not being able to convince the people of Scotland to vote for independence, my word what a complete embarrassment for the seething YES minority.

[Antlion]

1 hour ago, strichener said:

I am not really sure what your first paragraph actually relates to but I don't have any fears about the EU. You are asking me to give examples for a position that you have ascribed to me and not one that I have.  I have an understanding of the direction the organisation is taking and I am glad that we will not be part of it.  Given your posting on this subject so far, and your absolute dearth of knowledge ('Sharing power obviously requires being a "legal" entity.'), then I will leave you to your clearly skewed vision.

 

On the bit in bold - Whilst you have a problem with the same being said about Westminster.  Less than 2 years after the majority of the electorate voted to remain part of the UK.  Very hypocritical. 

So you "are glad we will not be part of it" despite every council ward in Scotland voting to remain part of it? There goes the pretence of supporting independence out the window. Evidently you're quite happy for the decision of Scotland's electorate to be ignored if you don't like it. You're currently at Bishop Briggs levels of prizing Scotland's regional status when you prefer the UK's decision over Scotland's.

[strichener]

6 hours ago, Antlion said:

So you "are glad we will not be part of it" despite every council ward in Scotland voting to remain part of it? There goes the pretence of supporting independence out the window. Evidently you're quite happy for the decision of Scotland's electorate to be ignored if you don't like it. You're currently at Bishop Briggs levels of prizing Scotland's regional status when you prefer the UK's decision over Scotland's.

What an abject simpleton you are.  Do you know what a franchise is and do you realise that this is set before votes and finally that it is the majority of the franchise whom choose to vote that counts?  Claiming that my pretence of supporting independence is out the window just reinforces your utter buffoonery.  It is entirely reasonable, even logical in my mind, to support an independent Scotland outside of the EU.  Being a blind follower of the SNP, there is absolutely no surprise that you cannot separate the two things.

Just for clarity and consistency - I would welcome a free trade agreement with the EU and the requisite freedoms/restrictions that this brings.

[Antlion]

39 minutes ago, strichener said:

What an abject simpleton you are.  Do you know what a franchise is and do you realise that this is set before votes and finally that it is the majority of the franchise whom choose to vote that counts?  Claiming that my pretence of supporting independence is out the window just reinforces your utter buffoonery.  It is entirely reasonable, even logical in my mind, to support an independent Scotland outside of the EU.  Being a blind follower of the SNP, there is absolutely no surprise that you cannot separate the two things.

Just for clarity and consistency - I would welcome a free trade agreement with the EU and the requisite freedoms/restrictions that this brings.

Of course you can support an independent Scotland outside the EU. You can't support an independent Scotland whilst expressing your delight at decisions you approve affecting Scotland by virtue of it being an outvoted region. You're a farce. If you had even the least shred of belief in an independent Scotland outside the EU, you would be supporting an independence vote followed by a campaign for Scotland, as a nation, to have a referendum on EU membership. Yet instead you are "happy" that Scotland is a region whose elecorate's voice can be ignored when you prefer the choice the UK has made. You appear to want independence only when you don't prefer the rUK's decisions; otherwise you're happy enough for regionality to reign. I really don't think you've thought through this whole "independence" thing. It's predicted on Scotland seeking and achieving the right to make decisions on issues like EU memberships itself, via the decisions of the people who live here being made at the ballot box, whether you like them or not. It is a refusal to be as happy as you claim to be about the current system, under which Scotland's electorate doesn't get what the majority here voted for.

As for what you would "welcome", I don't give a merry f**k. As it stands you're "happy" for Brexit to take place and thus happy for Scotland to be given whatever deal the UK gets.

[strichener]

Of course you can support an independent Scotland outside the EU. You can't support an independent Scotland whilst expressing your delight at decisions you approve affecting Scotland by virtue of it being an outvoted region. You're a farce. If you had even the least shred of belief in an independent Scotland outside the EU, you would be supporting an independence vote followed by a campaign for Scotland, as a nation, to have a referendum on EU membership. Yet instead you are "happy" that Scotland is a region whose elecorate's voice can be ignored when you prefer the choice the UK has made. You appear to want independence only when you don't prefer the rUK's decisions; otherwise you're happy enough for regionality to reign. I really don't think you've thought through this whole "independence" thing. It's predicted on Scotland seeking and achieving the right to make decisions on issues like EU memberships itself, via the decisions of the people who live here being made at the ballot box, whether you like them or not. It is a refusal to be as happy as you claim to be about the current system, under which Scotland's electorate doesn't get what the majority here voted for.

As for what you would "welcome", I don't give a merry f**k. As it stands you're "happy" for Brexit to take place and thus happy for Scotland to be given whatever deal the UK gets.

Wow, so much anger and stupidity in one post. I feel I should give you a gold star or something. Maybe a few of them together with a blue sheet of paper.

[welshbairn]

22 hours ago, strichener said:

Just for clarity and consistency - I would welcome a free trade agreement with the EU and the requisite freedoms/restrictions that this brings.

What would be your red lines? Freedom of movement in exchange for a single market with a couple of opt outs, like Norway? Or issue by issue negotiations that could take decades like Switzerland. Or something else?

[strichener]

15 hours ago, welshbairn said:

What would be your red lines? Freedom of movement in exchange for a single market with a couple of opt outs, like Norway? Or issue by issue negotiations that could take decades like Switzerland. Or something else?

If we can reach agreement to have free movement of services, goods, capital and people with fair access to EU markets then I would see this as our best outcome.  An agreement similar to CETA in the technical aspects of co-operation which does not restrict the legislating ability on either side would augment the trade agreement.

My red-lines are solely on the implementation of EU legislation in the UK.  Other countries (such as South Korea) have managed to successfully conclude trade agreements with the EU that does not require them to adopt EU policies or directives, we should look to negotiate similar.

[AUFC90]

Can't see the EU budging on freedom of movement and not sure that the UK gov can budge on it either.

[Antlion]

21 hours ago, strichener said:

Wow, so much anger and stupidity in one post. I feel I should give you a gold star or something. Maybe a few of them together with a blue sheet of paper.

Unfounded accusations of rage and stupidity when your selective support of Scotland's decisions as a national entity is revealed. Not surprisingly in the least. You're a mess.

[Cream Cheese]

5 hours ago, strichener said:

If we can reach agreement to have free movement of services, goods, capital and people with fair access to EU markets then I would see this as our best outcome.  An agreement similar to CETA in the technical aspects of co-operation which does not restrict the legislating ability on either side would augment the trade agreement.

My red-lines are solely on the implementation of EU legislation in the UK.  Other countries (such as South Korea) have managed to successfully conclude trade agreements with the EU that does not require them to adopt EU policies or directives, we should look to negotiate similar.

Trade is controlled by policy as well. We'll just have less control over our trading policy as the EU forces us to make concessions in order to get the trade deals we want. There not just going to meekly surrender to our every whim, unless they can dictate some of our policies.

[strichener]

12 minutes ago, Cream Cheese said:

Trade is controlled by policy as well. We'll just have less control over our trading policy as the EU forces us to make concessions in order to get the trade deals we want. There not just going to meekly surrender to our every whim, unless they can dictate some of our policies.

That is no different to now unless you think all trade agreements that the EU enters into are to maximise the benefits to the UK.

[Cream Cheese]

1 minute ago, strichener said:

That is no different to now unless you think all trade agreements that the EU enters into are to maximise the benefits to the UK.

The difference is that it will cost more to have them as an outside trading partner, than it did as a member. The benefits of leaving the EU are completely NIL.

[strichener]

33 minutes ago, Antlion said:

Unfounded accusations of rage and stupidity when your selective support of Scotland's decisions as a national entity is revealed. Not surprisingly in the least. You're a mess.

Unfounded - only if you don't read your posts.  Perfectly logical deduction if you do.

[strichener]

1 minute ago, Cream Cheese said:

The difference is that it will cost more to have them as an outside trading partner, than it did as a member. The benefits of leaving the EU are completely NIL.

Are you going to substantiate this with actual figures?

[Cream Cheese]

3 hours ago, strichener said:

Are you going to substantiate this with actual figures?

The figures won't become clearer until the deals have actually been struck and the UK officially leaves the UK. The only sure thing is that not much will change with the relationship we currently have with the EU. It will just cost more to trade.

[strichener]

24 minutes ago, Cream Cheese said:

The figures won't become clearer until the deals have actually been struck and the UK officially leaves the UK. The only sure thing is that not much will change with the relationship we currently have with the EU. It will just cost more to trade.

Why will it cost more to trade?  Can you put this into some sort of context regarding the current cost to trade in the EU so that we can then determine if it does indeed cost more?

 

[John Lambies Doos]

Poll being released for Sunday herald I hear

[McSpreader]

On ‎04‎/‎08‎/‎2016 at 17:36, Cream Cheese said:

The difference is that it will cost more to have them as an outside trading partner, than it did as a member. The benefits of leaving the EU are completely NIL.

One of the benefits is how much I enjoy reading your pish.

It's too early to know all the benefits/negatives and the majority of definitive statements regarding such are baseless.

One other benefit is that Britain ( or should I say Great Britain seeing as even that annoys you so much!)is no longer on the path to full political and economic integration into a European Superstate.....

Another benefit will be creation of new trade deals with all the World's  emerging economies. Even a blinkered numpty like yourself can concede the benefits of that. The beauty of these new trade deals is that they won't be the high tariff protectionist deals that the EU forces on to nations. That will benefit both sides striking the deal and not be designed to protect  lazy French farmers and multi national corporations.

Not paying millions£ every week to subsidise a bloated and self serving political and bureaucratic elite that f*cking detests Britain will be another benefit.

[mjw]

One of the benefits is how much I enjoy reading your pish.

It's too early to know all the benefits/negatives and the majority of definitive statements regarding such are baseless.

One other benefit is that Britain ( or should I say Great Britain seeing as even that annoys you so much!)is no longer on the path to full political and economic integration into a European Superstate.....

Another benefit will be creation of new trade deals with all the World's  emerging economies. Even a blinkered numpty like yourself can concede the benefits of that. The beauty of these new trade deals is that they won't be the high tariff protectionist deals that the EU forces on to nations. That will benefit both sides striking the deal and not be designed to protect  lazy French farmers and multi national corporations.

Not paying millions£ every week to subsidise a bloated and self serving political and bureaucratic elite that f*cking detests Britain will be another benefit.

Its too early to know all the benefits/negatives he posts.

Then tells us a list of benefits wrapped up in some xenophobia.