Who's surprised?

[Officer Barbrady]

31 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

And we'll spend 90 minutes having balls pumped in behind our centre halves, who'll never catch the striker because they're all slow as shite, before being knackered by the hour mark and have nothing left for the most important 30 minutes of the match

Seeing as we are talking about core development of players, and addressing the culture of failure, it's fairly safe to assume that very little of it would or should be witnessed from the current side. Whether Hanley, Martin or whoever populates the backline in the near to middling future, isn't really up for debate.  We know that's a virtual certainty. Looking beyond that, is attempting to change how younger players play, and one would hope master it to a degree of passable quality. 

 

The ins and outs of my particular outlook on the game won't make the blindest bit of difference, but to simplify it, the massive gap between our 5 and 9 is where a lot of our defeats are lost. Midfielders are encouraged to abandon their natural game in.order to fill a 'Makelele/Xavi/whoever' role, whrn it's palpably obvious they can't execute it. This weakens the defence even more than the prospect of bringing them twenty yards further up the pitch, as at least they won't be sat on top of by empty bodies in midfield making up the numbers. 

 

The other pitfalls/advantages, are that if /when our own (this) approach is nurtured and mastered, in time, our players may even be able to comfortably hold possession in the bashed, beaten and bedraggled opponents half. I'd expect that only the best teams would be able to carve  out a chance within the short timeframe they would have before being pressed by two or three of our guys. Like i said, these three won't be Brown, Naismith and Anya.....this is about the future, and how to address repeated failure. 

 

On the last point, fitness isn't something which i could fault Scotland for at all. But, by being masters of our own game, tactics and style of play, the players would also hopefully be intelligent enough to know when to exert the highest pressure. 

 

Of course, its all subjective. We'll just wait and see what everyone else is doing, and copy them for six years until the next fad comes along. 

[Monkey Tennis]

1 hour ago, Miguel Sanchez said:

I've been wanting to post this somewhere but haven't been able to figure out the best place for it - a thread about attempts at changing the culture surrounding footballers in Scotland seems the best bet. Behold, Barry Ferguson in the Daily Record talking some degree of sense: http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/mark-warburton-right-want-rangers-8469053

It's a ghosted piece of fluff that says very little.

Fletcher went to Man United as a kid because he was deemed good enough.  In bygone days, when we produced more talent and English clubs restricted their recruitment to the British Isles, dozens and dozens of kids did similar.

I do recognise the syndrome of Central Scotland Mummy's boys wishing to stay close to home, but the real difficulty is that there are now so few that would interest teams elsewhere.

[Father Ted]

If the podcast is of the interview on the Beeb website, then other than his hopefully wrong prediction that we should only play with wingers and strikers, he's basically right in his criticism of the modern Scottish approach. 

 

He's right to say that with the ball, we should fanny about less. Whether or not that means we should seek less of the ball, and more time working to force errors from our opponents, or (probably, knowing him) just relentlessly bomb forward and 'have a go', is the major difference between him, and the sort of people who might at least be able to offer some fucking insight. 

 

A famous quote from Johann Cruyff said a player, on average, will have the ball for three minutes. It's what is done in the other 87, which determines whether or not he's any good. Possession football, in Scotland at least, simply has to go. It's making poor players worse, and is boring as f**k anyway.

 

Only way our teams stand a chance of improving, is with three things, and having the football isn't one of them. Firstly, introduce a high defensive line. Secondly, pressing in numbers - harrass, harangue and bully the f**k out of the opponents if need be - will yield more than sitting back. Lastly, ensure the opponents worst players are covered (usually a right back or defensive midfielder).....they provide an alternative 'easy ball' if/when the opponents struggle to break you down. You'll have the ball in no time, and then start over again. 

Very much this.

[Father Ted]

And we'll spend 90 minutes having balls pumped in behind our centre halves, who'll never catch the striker because they're all slow as shite, before being knackered by the hour mark and have nothing left for the most important 30 minutes of the match

Push in a defensive midfielder with centre halves to make it more solid at back when we attack. Certainly worked with Dominic Ball at Rangers, for example.

[Gordopolis]

Willie Miller hits the nail on the head here IMO http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36874392

"Part of Wotte's plan was to establish 'a Scottish way' but the Scottish way seems to be that we keep changing performance director. We need continuity, we need someone to see this programme out."

Hope he's wrong re it all being in tatters but the quick, frequent turnover of leaders suggests it's hardly cruising towards success.

[Rabinho]

Willie Miller hits the nail on the head here IMO http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36874392

"Part of Wotte's plan was to establish 'a Scottish way' but the Scottish way seems to be that we keep changing performance director. We need continuity, we need someone to see this programme out."

Hope he's wrong re it all being in tatters but the quick, frequent turnover of leaders suggests it's hardly cruising towards success.

I don't think it's as bad as Miller makes out but I do think we've lost ground while McClair was in post.
Perhaps it's a job suited better to two men, one with the coaching nous and another better equipped to present to boardrooms.
The problem will always arise that clubs will always tend to resist this though, with two obvious culprits.

[Officer Barbrady]

Why is it being projected AT the clubs though, like it's some sort of kit or equipment sales gig? If the clubs are being sought and co-erced by a thrown-together rabble, in order to scrap their whole MO regarding youth development, and by proxy admit to having it all wrong all this time, then it'll never get off the ground. 

 

I wouldn't necessarily blame either of the cheeks for it falling at the first hurdle, either....i'd think they'd be the most to benefit, having the cream of the produce to pick from. But Miller is absolutely right in his assessment that it's all gone to shit, because we're now on our fourth or fifth attempt at changing this....anyone, or any process which got it even nearly right before, will have been binned and never seen of again as part of the sweeping new directive. 

 

It's well seen the FA down south are being threatened with losing Govt handouts for not reforming quick enough.......just how much has been spunked on it up here?

[Rabinho]

Why is it being projected AT the clubs though, like it's some sort of kit or equipment sales gig? If the clubs are being sought and co-erced by a thrown-together rabble, in order to scrap their whole MO regarding youth development, and by proxy admit to having it all wrong all this time, then it'll never get off the ground. 

 

I wouldn't necessarily blame either of the cheeks for it falling at the first hurdle, either....i'd think they'd be the most to benefit, having the cream of the produce to pick from. But Miller is absolutely right in his assessment that it's all gone to shit, because we're now on our fourth or fifth attempt at changing this....anyone, or any process which got it even nearly right before, will have been binned and never seen of again as part of the sweeping new directive. 

 

It's well seen the FA down south are being threatened with losing Govt handouts for not reforming quick enough.......just how much has been spunked on it up here?

If I remember rightly from Wotte's exit interview on Sportsound he claimed some clubs were refusing to buy into what he was trying to do.
I always assumed it would have been the obvious suspects due to them having money to spend rather than having the patience to develop youth.
As was mentioned earlier, Malpas didn't cover himself in glory with his take on it and it wasn't hard to imagine his counterparts at other clubs would've reacted the same.

[haggisbeastie]

The common theme does seem to be too many vested interests and not wanting to give any ground.

Maybe the solution on this matter is dictatorship. Sometimes, there can be too much democracy when steep change is required.

[Officer Barbrady]

Correct, HB. In order to sort out the mess, going back to Ernie's Think Tank, the opinions of just about every man and his dug has been sought, and the reality is the more external involvement there's been, the worse it gets. 

 

f**k me, even the two most powerful guys in the game are only here because of attatchments to pre-existing CEO's and chairmen. And the duplicitous conflicts they bring with them. We could have at least whored ourselves to people who might improve things, instead of serve the status quo. 

[Gordopolis]

Dictatorship could only really work within the SFA tho. Clubs are strong-willed (stubborn), independent entities. They might be forced to comply with SFA mandates, but grudging, bitter, heel-dragging clubs would still fair knock the wind out of any push for change.

[Nowhereman]

1 hour ago, Gordopolis said:

Dictatorship could only really work within the SFA tho. Clubs are strong-willed (stubborn), independent entities. They might be forced to comply with SFA mandates, but grudging, bitter, heel-dragging clubs would still fair knock the wind out of any push for change.

Perhaps if we only had one governing body who ran both the leagues and the national sides as Germany and Italy do that might make a difference. Then the clubs would not be in the same position to be difficult as they would have to comply with the governing body.

[Gordopolis]

2 hours ago, Nowhereman said:

Perhaps if we only had one governing body who ran both the leagues and the national sides as Germany and Italy do that might make a difference. Then the clubs would not be in the same position to be difficult as they would have to comply with the governing body.

That'd be a decent step, as long as we ended up with the 'right' single body. I always thought/hoped the 2012 reforms were a step towards that. There still seems to be appetite for change, so maybe...

[Officer Barbrady]

Never going to happen. Dictators like Walker, Donald and even Farry, are synonymous with the period of football which current mindsets are geared towards demonising and at best described as hardly transparent, the watchword among football's inner circle since FIFA were rumbled. 

 

The one man who is owed a MASSIVE apology from not just the SFA but the entire sport, is John McBeth. He warned of Warner's acting the c**t over payments for a friendly, and was hounded out, pointed and laughed at. 

 

The 2012 'reforms' were and are a load of pen-pushing bullshit. The answer to a human problem, can never be adding more humans to it. The game needs a strong business leader, first and foremost. Barry Hearn voiced enough opinions to sound bothered by our state of affairs......why not see what else he has to say?

[King Kebab]

2 hours ago, Nowhereman said:

Perhaps if we only had one governing body who ran both the leagues and the national sides as Germany and Italy do that might make a difference. Then the clubs would not be in the same position to be difficult as they would have to comply with the governing body.

How could you? What about all those self-important, wear-the-blazer types who run our game with their booling club mentalities and perk exchanges???

Where would our game be without these unsung heroes? Where would they get their Cup Final tickets and First Class Cabin excursions to Scotland away games if you were to just throw them out on the streets???

 

Fuckin' go for it!!! 

 

[troopio]

2 hours ago, Officer Barbrady said:

Never going to happen. Dictators like Walker, Donald and even Farry, are synonymous with the period of football which current mindsets are geared towards demonising and at best described as hardly transparent, the watchword among football's inner circle since FIFA were rumbled. 

 

The one man who is owed a MASSIVE apology from not just the SFA but the entire sport, is John McBeth. He warned of Warner's acting the c**t over payments for a friendly, and was hounded out, pointed and laughed at. 

 

The 2012 'reforms' were and are a load of pen-pushing bullshit. The answer to a human problem, can never be adding more humans to it. The game needs a strong business leader, first and foremost. Barry Hearn voiced enough opinions to sound bothered by our state of affairs......why not see what else he has to say?

BIB

I would love to see and hear what he has to say but sad fact is there are too many selfish and self servicing clubs and individuals with their own agendas who would get in the way of any ideas he would have to try and bring our game forward.

[craigkillie]

You could say that there aren't any young players coming through in Scotland that foreign clubs would be interested in, but you see someone like Gauld who has the talent and clearly wants to move out of his comfort zone and try something and wonder what exactly is stopping other young players from trying. Probably the same sort of culture that rewards the status quo like the SFA seems to.

The main reason that Scottish players don't go abroad is that they don't have to. They can make a very good career for themselves in the second or third tier of English football, and that is much easier than having to go to a different country, where they have to learn a different language, a different culture, and a different style of football.

Compare that to somewhere like Slovenia or Albania. Their players don't have that easy option, and they therefore all have to move abroad. As a result their players end up scattered across Europe.

It's hard to really blame any individual player for that. How many folk on here have moved to a job in a foreign country where they don't speak English? It's a massive step to take, and when an easier option is on the table most will take it.

[HibeeJibee]

That is an area the SFA should be working on. I don't know what the answer is, but the most obvious difference between our football and other countries of similar standing is that our players only play in England and Scotland whereas the rest see their players go all over the continent... As such they get more exposure to high-pressure matches, European football and so on compared to a middle-table club in the Scottish Premiership / English Championship, as well as the simple fact of experiencing different styles of plays, attitudes and so on.

I still feel that there is a lack of professional here too... You still hear certain players being cited by pundits for their "great commitment" in coming back to training after lunch, avoiding fast food, minimising or avoiding alcohol, and such like. Maybe it's an exaggeration to think that all our players aren't looking after themselves and all the continentals are athletes, but you do feel there is a difference.

[underdogunderdog underdog]

SFA appear to be stuck in their ways. You'd think they would welcome a fresh approach considering the national team has been unsuccessful for so long.

[kenny131]

Well there ideas seem to be working as I noticed the u17s played well yesterday against Hungary.  They only lost 5 -1.

 

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