arab62 Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 Ma heeds just burst reading aw that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmc Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 Ma heeds just burst reading aw that The more its explained the less it makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnoc Moire Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 Literally no idea what's happening! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordopolis Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 Reverse vampires Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charger29 Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 Very convenient time for Lithuania to go tumbling down the rankings. They might end up in League D now. Not accusing them of doing it intentionally but it must be tempting for teams at their level. Play u21s against Malta and all of a sudden you're likely to be in a play-off with teams like Belarus, Georgia & Armenia for a place in EURO 2020 (while also being promoted back up to the C league like it never happened). ----------------- There's still a few things confusing me regarding League A teams being replaced by League B teams if they're already through. Say you're in League B and one group has Netherlands, Sweden and Hungary. A few games in, Hungary are guaranteed to finish bottom and you've got a decider between Netherlands and Sweden to see who tops the group and goes through to the play-offs. Why would you want to win that game, other than for promotion? If you win you are likely to be pushed up to League A play-offs, thereby ruining your chances of qualifying. However if you lose, you'll take second spot and are likely into the League B play-offs once a few teams are pushed up to League A. Edit: I sort of understand this bit now. The dates are important. NL groups in late 2018, normal Euro qualification in late 2019 and then NL play-offs in early 2020. Teams don't know how they'll do in normal qualification so they (should) go out to win their Nations group. I saw a post on another site, somebody looked at the Euro 2012 qualification as an example and 11 of the 12 teams in League A would already be through via normal qualification so you'd have three League B teams going up, and three second place teams in league B going into their own play-offs (seems harsh on B winners). Also is there a separate final four for League A group winners, as well as a league A play-offs? UEFA site seems to suggest so, but that's a bit confusing. Unlikely, but we could see a very similar tournament in June 2019 and March 2020 assuming none of them qualify via normal qualification). I can see this still being confusing as the games are being played with teams flying all over the place (League B runner-up beating remaining League A winner in the play-offs, but A winner gets promoted and B runner-up doesn't). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameus Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 Lithuania are one of the better examples of this, as looking at the other teams they'll be facing, they'll surely be big favourites for their group, and then big favourites to win the two play-off matches. Fair enough for them, they definitely look like the best option out of a very poor bottom pot, and UEFA's rules mean they'll likely be at a tournament for the first time in their history. Good on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuttonDressedAsLahm Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 On 08/09/2017 at 15:57, forameus said: Lithuania are one of the better examples of this, as looking at the other teams they'll be facing, they'll surely be big favourites for their group, and then big favourites to win the two play-off matches. Fair enough for them, they definitely look like the best option out of a very poor bottom pot, and UEFA's rules mean they'll likely be at a tournament for the first time in their history. Good on them. As long as Georgia don't get too many more results, they look a sure thing for the bottom group Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 On 08/09/2017 at 15:44, charger29 said: I saw a post on another site, somebody looked at the Euro 2012 qualification as an example and 11 of the 12 teams in League A would already be through via normal qualification so you'd have three League B teams going up, and three second place teams in league B going into their own play-offs (seems harsh on B winners). Also is there a separate final four for League A group winners, as well as a league A play-offs? UEFA site seems to suggest so, but that's a bit confusing. Unlikely, but we could see a very similar tournament in June 2019 and March 2020 assuming none of them qualify via normal qualification). I can see this still being confusing as the games are being played with teams flying all over the place (League B runner-up beating remaining League A winner in the play-offs, but A winner gets promoted and B runner-up doesn't). That wasn't my understanding of how it works: I'd read the number of contestants reduces (in this case to 1 = qualify automatically). Otherwise it'd be unfair as say Division B winners might be wiped-out by Division A flop like Netherlands, while runners-up play each other. There is a finals tournament in June 2019 for the 4x Division A winners to crown the UEFA Nations League Champion. In the (probably unlikely) event any didn't subsequently qualify through Euro 2020 qualifying they'd also be involved in the playoffs in March 2020, that's right... Btw, presumably the 4 Division A winners will be drawn into 4 of the 6 groups with 5-teams in Euro 2020 qualifying, so they can be the odd-numbered team both times in June 2019. Unless they're going to make them play 2 qualifiers then the Finals Tournament later in the month, tbf, as happens e.g. with Asian teams in the Confederations Cup. Your closing scenario could happen - it's very possible you'll get promoted nations playing-off against relegated nations, where everyone above the relegated team qualified normally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 So it's a total mess then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bully Wee Villa Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 In short, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charger29 Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 On 10/09/2017 at 23:42, HibeeJibee said: That wasn't my understanding of how it works: I'd read the number of contestants reduces (in this case to 1 = qualify automatically). Otherwise it'd be unfair as say Division B winners might be wiped-out by Division A flop like Netherlands, while runners-up play each other. But what if all 12 in League A go through via normal qualifying? There'd only be 23 teams in euro 2020. Or 9, and there's 3 teams for the play-offs? Also, you basically give the League A flop the Euro finals place on a plate this way. This is what the UEFA website says: Quote • Each of the four Nations League leagues receives four play-off qualification positions to be allocated to each of the four group winners within that league. • If any winners are already qualified through the European Qualifiers, then their play-off position will be allocated to the next best-ranked team of the league in question, taking into account the global ranking within the league, and then if necessary to the following league in decreasing order taking into consideration the global ranking of the relevant league. • The four teams in each league will play two one-off semi-finals and one one-off 'final' to determine each of the four play-off winners. To me it says League B winners go up into the League A play-offs. It doesn't feel right though. Not got a clue what "global ranking within the league" means though. I believe you're right about the League A winners going into the 5 team groups. Says so on an old UEFA article anyway: Quote • The UEFA EURO 2020 draw will be held after the completion of the UEFA Nations League and allow for the four UEFA Nations League Final Four participants to be drawn into groups of five teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 I read it as meaning if everyone had qualified the slot dropped to the next division. I guess the answer is "no-one seems to know for sure". If they do uplift division winners from below it's certainly "unfair", tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameus Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 I doubt UEFA know to be honest. Or at least haven't decided yet. They'll hope it doesn't come to that, then quickly rush in a rule ala France seeded in the playoffs at the last possible moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmc Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 Suddenly quantum mechanics seems a breeze compared to this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestersKTID Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 On 9/8/2017 at 13:34, Gordopolis said: Reverse vampires In conjunction with the saucer people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 Why even bother with pots and rankings at all ? Uefa and Fifa should just decide who they want to play each other from a financial perspective and just get on with it. Let's face it, there's no such thing as sporting integrity or providing any sort of spectacle for the fans, everything is driven purely by money and as such it's just a complete unadulterated shambles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameus Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 2 hours ago, PrestersKTID said: In conjunction with the saucer people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 On 13/09/2017 at 10:44, WATTOO said: Why even bother with pots and rankings at all ? Uefa and Fifa should just decide who they want to play each other from a financial perspective and just get on with it. Let's face it, there's no such thing as sporting integrity or providing any sort of spectacle for the fans, everything is driven purely by money and as such it's just a complete unadulterated shambles. Except that this tournament is quite explicitly replacing "pots and rankings" with a meritocracy (of sorts, at least). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bully Wee Villa Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 It seems a bizarre meritocracy in that being at the top or the bottom are rewarded, while being in the middle is punished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordopolis Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 I'm interested enough in this new system mainly because a) it's a bit of a shake up of the tired old friendly system and b) it means Scotland can't do their usual hiding act (not taking friendlies) when these matchdays come along. The system does seem pretty awkward and unfair in places though. But I say go with it and it'll surely be altered and tweaked* after the first cycle. *or scrapped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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