Gordon Strachan

[TheScarf]

Just now, 1320Lichtie said:

Well who could do a better job?

You do realise pointing out a large problem doesn't always require to know an alternative right?  That's not quite now the world works.

[kenny131]

3 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

Well who could do a better job?

A garden knome

[TheScarf]

As I've said on this section many times, there's numerous managers out there who could motivate and organise this Scotland squad better than Strachan.  It's up to the SFA to find one.

[1320Lichtie]

You do realise pointing out a large problem doesn't always require to know an alternative right?  That's not quite now the world works.

It was a joke.

[KnightswoodBear]

I think a lot of it is down to blind luck.  Taking Wales as an example, I don't think Chris Coleman had anything other than a distinctly mediocre managerial record before taking over the National team.

He's taken a team of average players, with one or two outstanding players, to the semi finals of the Euros.  Right man, right time.

We need a wee bit of luck in our next appointment, rather than just pick the "best" available Scottish manager. 

[The Moonster]

22 minutes ago, TheScarf said:

It's up to the SFA to find one.

And therein lies a bigger problem than Strachan. Let's say we sack Strachan, do you think the SFA are more likely to appoint a Mark McGhee type or a Lars Lagerback type?

[forameus]

3 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

And therein lies a bigger problem than Strachan. Let's say we sack Strachan, do you think the SFA are more likely to appoint a Mark McGhee type or a Lars Lagerback type?

100% spot on.  Bonus points for picking a guy they've already turned down twice.

[TheScarf]

27 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

 

It was a joke.

 

You b*****d 

[TheScarf]

14 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

And therein lies a bigger problem than Strachan. Let's say we sack Strachan, do you think the SFA are more likely to appoint a Mark McGhee type or a Lars Lagerback type?

I'd say Strachan is the biggest problem with the national team.  Followed closely behind by Hamish Husband.

[The Moonster]

Just now, TheScarf said:

I'd say Strachan is the biggest problem with the national team.  Followed closely behind by Hamish Husband.

I'm not Strachan's biggest fan, nor do I care for arseholes like Hamish Husband, but I have far more faith in Strachan getting us to a major tournament than I do in the SFA appointing a good replacement.

[troopio]

Purely for the overreaction this suggestion would get but what about Steve Evans.......ha

[Alan Stubbs]

Can't believe I've just agreed with Lex but indeed, good post.

Although I disagree with people who still talk about us being on a level with Ireland, they're much better than us. Nevertheless, there's no excusing the level we're at now.

[Gordopolis]

1 hour ago, 1320Lichtie said:

Great post from Dunning

53 and counting is unbearable here. Moaning that McArthur has got less caps than his age being unacceptable.

Not taking into account... His personal development as a player, how good he has been as a player over his career, other players that have been available and selected in front of him in his position, injuries, form... Nothing.

Just, he's 28 and now one of our better players it's a joke that he's got less caps than his age.

Absolutely no point even trying to discuss anything with him.

I think the McArthur thing is too specific an example to get worked up about, but I do reckon there is a general trend with the Scotland team that we are too inconsistent with our selection.

We generally don't get many players past 50 caps, and while the number of caps doesn't translate into success, it does indicate consistency of selection and can foster a familiarity/spine about the side - bringing the national side a little closer to the feel of a club side.

Some people cite our lack of regular tournaments as a reason why we don't produce many highly-capped players, but the like of ROI are in a similar-ish boat and they have a recent spate of guys earning 100+ caps. I reckon this has helped solidify them and lift them above their on-paper bang-averageness.

[1320Lichtie]

I think the McArthur thing is too specific an example to get worked up about, but I do reckon there is a general trend with the Scotland team that we are too inconsistent with our selection.

We generally don't get many players past 50 caps, and while the number of caps doesn't translate into success, it does indicate consistency of selection and can foster a familiarity/spine about the side - bringing the national side a little closer to the feel of a club side.

Some people cite our lack of regular tournaments as a reason why we don't produce many highly-capped players, but the like of ROI are in a similar-ish boat and they have a recent spate of guys earning 100+ caps. I reckon this has helped solidify them and lift them above their on-paper bang-averageness.

If we had a Shay Given or Robbie Keane quality of player they would be getting that number of caps but we haven't and don't, also the fact ROI qualify every so often adds another 6 or so games on to players totals. You look at England and guys are getting 2/3/4 warm up games and 3/4/5 tournament games added to their cap tally every 2 year.

[1320Lichtie]

Can't believe I've just agreed with Lex but indeed, good post.

Although I disagree with people who still talk about us being on a level with Ireland, they're much better than us. Nevertheless, there's no excusing the level we're at now.

Not much better, but definitely better.

[Gordopolis]

If we had a Shay Given or Robbie Keane quality of player they would be getting that number of caps but we haven't and don't, also the fact ROI qualify every so often adds another 6 or so games on to players totals. You look at England and guys are getting 2/3/4 warm up games and 3/4/5 tournament games added to their cap tally every 2 year.

I buy that tournies add a few extra caps, but not the difference between our 50 cap 'hall of famers' and the 100 cap types that ROI have.
As for the chicken and egg thing re if your good enough you'll get plenty of caps, I also agree with that, but it doesn't always need to come in that direction. Robbie Keane is quality yes, but what about the likes of O'Shea, Kilbane, Duff, all with 100+ caps? ROI stuck with these guys consistently and I believe they benefited from it. Perhaps it was necessity to an extent, but I think that any national side would benefit from a consistent spine.

Us dicking about with Greer and Martin, Martin and Hanley, Berra and Martin frustrates me (and that's just one recent example). Hanley and Martin should be starting nearly every game they're available for unless there is a specific dangerman the opposition possess that would be best handled by another defender.
Also the stuttering use of Robertson: hindsight is a wonderful thing but why the feck were we dicking about with the likes of Forsyth for such a crucial tie?

[Officer Barbrady]

I actually didn't, and do not have a problem with the likes of the Forsyth issue, if i believed it was purely based on a personnel or tactical issue from Strachan's point of view....it was a brave decision, and one which almost backfired. Had it done so more severely, than it did, Strachan would have gotten it in the neck for fannying around and i'm sure would have answered the critics when grilled about it. 

 

However, he hasn't demonstrated such bravery in attempting to forward things on a bit, in terms of tactics, strategy and identity. People point to a maximum ten games a year, which is the same for everyone else in our ranking range. The biggest reason we play as we do, is because it's simply too much hard work to do anything else. Our attitude in games, typifies the approach....we don't look like we've rehearsed anything, went over set plays or even designated the right men at defending them. If i sat ten monkeys down to play FM tonight, by the weekend half of them would have a grasp of this.....why the f**k do we accept a manager who does not? Great post Lex, btw. 

[BFTD]

I wouldn't go getting too carried away about the Eire players receiving extra caps from qualification to tournaments. They've qualified for three during Robbie Keane's career, playing a total of eleven games. Warm-up matches are a wash, considering we normally take part in those either way, and the games against local club sides and somesuch don't count. If their players do, on average, end up with more noticeably caps than ours, it's just that they don't swap the side around as much.

Also, did we not just take a tumble in the rankings purely because the Euros and Copa America were on while we were sitting at home? We're in a slightly false position as a result, and will recover unless we really shit the bed in these qualifiers. Anyone wondering how much worse it can get might want to check out our chart since the FIFA rankings began. Or see the ones for Wales and Northern Ireland  

[Gordopolis]

11 hours ago, BigFatTabbyDave said:

I wouldn't go getting too carried away about the Eire players receiving extra caps from qualification to tournaments. They've qualified for three during Robbie Keane's career, playing a total of eleven games. Warm-up matches are a wash, considering we normally take part in those either way, and the games against local club sides and somesuch don't count. If their players do, on average, end up with more noticeably caps than ours, it's just that they don't swap the side around as much.

Also, did we not just take a tumble in the rankings purely because the Euros and Copa America were on while we were sitting at home? We're in a slightly false position as a result, and will recover unless we really shit the bed in these qualifiers. Anyone wondering how much worse it can get might want to check out our chart since the FIFA rankings began. Or see the ones for Wales and Northern Ireland  

Interesting to see the stratospheric bump we got in the Smith/McLeish period, and the impressive boost at the start of the Strachan era too. Quite funny to see how insignificant a bump we got from Levein in comparison!

[forameus]

11 hours ago, BigFatTabbyDave said:

I wouldn't go getting too carried away about the Eire players receiving extra caps from qualification to tournaments. They've qualified for three during Robbie Keane's career, playing a total of eleven games. Warm-up matches are a wash, considering we normally take part in those either way, and the games against local club sides and somesuch don't count. If their players do, on average, end up with more noticeably caps than ours, it's just that they don't swap the side around as much.

Also, did we not just take a tumble in the rankings purely because the Euros and Copa America were on while we were sitting at home? We're in a slightly false position as a result, and will recover unless we really shit the bed in these qualifiers. Anyone wondering how much worse it can get might want to check out our chart since the FIFA rankings began. Or see the ones for Wales and Northern Ireland  

Absolutely correct on the last point.  Taking your world ranking at any one point is usually pointless.  We're low right now because all the major teams in Europe, South America and North America have all played tournaments this summer.  You get more points for major tournament games.  We're at 51, and only 11 teams above us weren't playing tournament football this summer.  Most of those were in Africa, but even they'll receive a bump in January come the African Cup of Nations.  Once everyone starts playing games we'll settle back into a more "natural" position, unless, like you say, we really shit the bed.  

But it doesn't really matter at the end of the day.  We only really need our ranking to be high in the months before a World Cup Qualifying campaign starts.  It's still another 3 years before the next draw that uses them.  Even if we qualify for the World Cup, we're very unlikely to make it into the top 8 ranked sides going there, and so will be unseeded into one of the regional pots.  The rankings are a complete irrelevance otherwise.  We win games, we'll rise.  The former is more important than the resulting latter.

As a side note, I'd also imagine that if we had a striker of Robbie Keane's quality, he'd have a similar amount of caps for us.  We just haven't had players that have been good enough for long enough to warrant that many.