senorsoupe Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 On 3/16/2018 at 08:48, tarapoa said: So all the smaller nations just accepted this? Hard enough to get into the ELGS these days anyway, without making it another 40% less likely. Well, the smaller nations tried to object but were kindly told to f**k right off by the moneyed nations 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gannonball Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 On 28/02/2018 at 12:47, Duszek said: Its not out the question. Germany will piss the group with any out of Sweden, Mexico or South Korea coming second 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10menwent2mow Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 Looking at Bert’s site it appears that no Scottish Club will be seeded in Europa League Q2. He has the seeding threshold set at 4.25 and Aberdeen will be the highest ranked of the qualifiers with a coefficient of 4.00. This is due to UEFA changing the coefficient system. Under the old system Aberdeen would comfortably have been seeded for q2. I don’t see why UEFA are using the old points system of 1pt for reaching EL q3 when from now on that will be worth 2pts. Had this been retrospectively applied. Aberdeen would have 8 coefficient points rather than only 4 which would have them seeded for q2 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginaro Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 6 minutes ago, 10menwent2mow said: Looking at Bert’s site it appears that no Scottish Club will be seeded in Europa League Q2. He has the seeding threshold set at 4.25 and Aberdeen will be the highest ranked of the qualifiers with a coefficient of 4.00. This is due to UEFA changing the coefficient system. Under the old system Aberdeen would comfortably have been seeded for q2. I don’t see why UEFA are using the old points system of 1pt for reaching EL q3 when from now on that will be worth 2pts. Had this been retrospectively applied. Aberdeen would have 8 coefficient points rather than only 4 which would have them seeded for q2 Unless you've worked out all of the clubs coefficients for this year using the old system, not sure how you can say Aberdeen would've been seeded. Yes they would have more points but then the seeding threshold might also be higher. The club coefficient system has changed so that it is only clubs performances which count, rather than also getting 20% from the country coefficient or gaining points when not even playing one year. Bert's site also explains that the system is different this year because the CL QR losers get a second chance in the EL, which will be why UEFA wouldn't retrospectively apply the new system. I think Aberdeen, Rangers and Motherwell/Hibs will need to hope that they get drawn against an unseeded team who beat a seed in QR1 if they are to progress in QR2, as some of the seeds will be tough to beat. It will be interesting to see how it all works out with the draws taking place before the previous round has even begun. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10menwent2mow Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 Unless you've worked out all of the clubs coefficients for this year using the old system, not sure how you can say Aberdeen would've been seeded. Yes they would have more points but then the seeding threshold might also be higher. The club coefficient system has changed so that it is only clubs performances which count, rather than also getting 20% from the country coefficient or gaining points when not even playing one year. Bert's site also explains that the system is different this year because the CL QR losers get a second chance in the EL, which will be why UEFA wouldn't retrospectively apply the new system. I think Aberdeen, Rangers and Motherwell/Hibs will need to hope that they get drawn against an unseeded team who beat a seed in QR1 if they are to progress in QR2, as some of the seeds will be tough to beat. It will be interesting to see how it all works out with the draws taking place before the previous round has even begun. I’m going by the fact that we were comfortably seeded for qr2 this season and our coefficient under the old system would have increased to around 7.7 which last season would have had us plum in the middle of the seeds. I very much doubt there is that great a variance in the seeding threshold from season to season. I’d agree with your assessment on the best chance to reach qr3, however, the likely case is that there won’t be many teams in qr1 who would also be seeded for qr2, about a dozen according to Bert’s site and you’d expect most of them to win in q1. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginaro Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 19 minutes ago, 10menwent2mow said: I’m going by the fact that we were comfortably seeded for qr2 this season and our coefficient under the old system would have increased to around 7.7 which last season would have had us plum in the middle of the seeds. I very much doubt there is that great a variance in the seeding threshold from season to season. Also this year there's fewer league path spots up for grabs in the group stage, so clubs from higher ranked countries are coming in earlier plus they are using their country coefficient minimum to go ahead of clubs from smaller countries. For example Utrecht on 6.712 last year same as Aberdeen, but if they qualify this year they will use the Netherland's country minimum of 5.949 instead of their own 2.000. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarapoa Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Country Minimum Ranking.................why is this applied? What possible sporting logic is there in a bunch of European novices called Mariupol getting a shoey-in ahead of clubs with European pedigree just because they happen to come from the same country as Dinamo Kiev and Shakhtar. Same with Burnley, not been in Europe since the 1960s. Yes, they come from a stronger league, but that means they should have the resources to earn themselves a ranking of their own. All this country minimum has served to do from a Scots perspective is rank Sevco and Hibs close to Aberdeen - when AFC have played 22 matches in the past four seasons and built up a bit of credit in the bank e.g. four victories in QR2 (three of them when unseeded). 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wastecoatwilly Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 Looking at the champions league this coming year there is only 15 champions out of 32 teams going into the group stages. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshmallo Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 10 hours ago, wastecoatwilly said: Looking at the champions league this coming year there is only 15 champions out of 32 teams going into the group stages. Absolute disgrace that I'll need to be subjected to Real Madrid vs Napoli or Liverpool vs Schalke ahead of Valletta vs Spartaks Jumala or TNS vs Flora Tallinn. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poet of the Macabre Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 18 hours ago, Marshmallo said: Absolute disgrace that I'll need to be subjected to Real Madrid vs Napoli or Liverpool vs Schalke ahead of Valletta vs Spartaks Jumala or TNS vs Flora Tallinn. Exactly. I see enough of the #AgainstModernFootball nonsense on Twitter; could really do with not seeing it on here too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Exactly. I see enough of the #AgainstModernFootball nonsense on Twitter; could really do with not seeing it on here too. Modern football is shite. Accept it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiegoDiego Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Absolute disgrace that I'll need to be subjected to Real Madrid vs Napoli or Liverpool vs Schalke ahead of Valletta vs Spartaks Jumala or TNS vs Flora Tallinn. You do realise that there is a middle ground where all of European football could benefit? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eez-eh Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 8 hours ago, DiegoDiego said: You do realise that there is a middle ground where all of European football could benefit? A middle ground on the internet? Don’t be insane, you’re supposed to take an extreme view and denounce who doesn’t agree as an idiot. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 (edited) Unfortunately, the middle ground here is the current setup - where teams like Celtic, Dinamo Zagreb, Olympiacos and Legia Warsaw are allowed in the main competition and spend the majority of their games getting an utter hiding. It's shite that the Champions League isn't really a league for champions, but sadly that's the way football is this days. It's just not practical due to the financial tiers in European football, and the huge gulfs that exist between them. Edited June 1, 2018 by Nightmare 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 On 5/23/2018 at 13:06, tarapoa said: Country Minimum Ranking.................why is this applied? What possible sporting logic is there in a bunch of European novices called Mariupol getting a shoey-in ahead of clubs with European pedigree just because they happen to come from the same country as Dinamo Kiev and Shakhtar. Same with Burnley, not been in Europe since the 1960s. Yes, they come from a stronger league, but that means they should have the resources to earn themselves a ranking of their own. All this country minimum has served to do from a Scots perspective is rank Sevco and Hibs close to Aberdeen - when AFC have played 22 matches in the past four seasons and built up a bit of credit in the bank e.g. four victories in QR2 (three of them when unseeded). Tbh I think it's ridiculous to rank a club like Linfield, who qualify every year from a really poor league, higher than a club that's broken through in a much more difficult league - like, as you say, Burnley, who've shown their quality in making a qualifying spot in the EPL. The entire purpose of ranking is to work out which teams are likely better than other teams. Incorporating something to reflect the quality of the league they're from is obviously going to lead to a more accurate ranking. Linfield aren't better than Burnley. I'd prefer binning seeding altogether and apart from a preliminary round or two for the minnows, have everyone in together in the luck of the draw. But if they're going to have seeding then they're as well trying to have ranking as accurate as possible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Onion Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Does the national team ranking affect club team ranking these days? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marten Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 11 minutes ago, Spring Onion said: Does the national team ranking affect club team ranking these days? No 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Onion Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Thats probably good then. Could really do with getting somehow 2 at the least or even three teams through to various group stages. It would be very good to watch some group games with lots of Scottish interest. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginaro Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 21 minutes ago, Spring Onion said: Thats probably good then. Could really do with getting somehow 2 at the least or even three teams through to various group stages. It would be very good to watch some group games with lots of Scottish interest. I'd settle for Celtic in the group stage of either competition and Rangers/Hibs getting to UEL QR2 to begin with, that should give us at least the same amount of points as last season. Only 13 teams get through to the UEL group stages via the non-champions path so very unlikely for Aberdeen/Rangers/Hibs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Onion Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 33 minutes ago, Ginaro said: I'd settle for Celtic in the group stage of either competition and Rangers/Hibs getting to UEL QR2 to begin with, that should give us at least the same amount of points as last season. Only 13 teams get through to the UEL group stages via the non-champions path so very unlikely for Aberdeen/Rangers/Hibs. Surely there are not many champions of their leagues end up in the Europa league is there? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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