The Ginger Prince Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Remember the United fan(s) that were celebrating being top of the league at Christmas Minterrific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishtergrolsch Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 If it was as simple as one or two bad signings, unlucky results here and there but we had a solid looking team siting 3rd or 4th I wouldn't be so for getting rid. The fact is we have a squad which Ray has mostly signed. Most of them are between average and awful. And a few of them will be on relatively big money. Some of them have already been punted. He's picked some really baffling lineups and has played awful players and out of form players for too long. He plays the chosen one all the time wherever he can, forgetting he is a liability. Signed two haddies on loan at the last minute in Mikkleson and Nicholls. The team has no drive or confidence about it and hasn't in weeks. He's not just been here for a month or two, he's had the whole season, two transfer windows and we are still short up front and really poor in midfield. I didnt think he was the right guy in the first place tbh. However, I do want him to do well and I want him to turn it round as I'm fed up with shit managers. I just don't think he's done enough with what he has. He managed in this league last season so he should know what he need to do to win matches but the way we line up and play, It dosent look like that. So either the players aren't good enough (his fault for bringing them in and playing them?) or they aren't managed correctly (his fault.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pull My Strings Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 1 minute ago, mishtergrolsch said: He's not just been here for a month or two, he's had the whole season, two transfer windows and we are still short up front and really poor in midfield. He's had three quarters of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishtergrolsch Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 4 minutes ago, Pull My Strings said: He's had three quarters of the season. Yeah. The whole of this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArabianKnight Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 He's certainly not as terrible as some have made out. But he's not reaching the expectations set by others. My honest view is that Mackinnon has been bang average and it isn't getting the best out of the players he's got. We're still quite a weak side for this league with the players at our disposal not having the attributes suited for the way teams play here. I'd certainly be giving Ray until the half way point next season to see how he fares if we (as I'm expecting) get put out of the play offs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadwell Dog Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 1 hour ago, mishtergrolsch said: If it was as simple as one or two bad signings, unlucky results here and there but we had a solid looking team siting 3rd or 4th I wouldn't be so for getting rid. The fact is we have a squad which Ray has mostly signed. Most of them are between average and awful. And a few of them will be on relatively big money. Some of them have already been punted. He's picked some really baffling lineups and has played awful players and out of form players for too long. He plays the chosen one all the time wherever he can, forgetting he is a liability. Signed two haddies on loan at the last minute in Mikkleson and Nicholls. The team has no drive or confidence about it and hasn't in weeks. He's not just been here for a month or two, he's had the whole season, two transfer windows and we are still short up front and really poor in midfield. I didnt think he was the right guy in the first place tbh. However, I do want him to do well and I want him to turn it round as I'm fed up with shit managers. I just don't think he's done enough with what he has. He managed in this league last season so he should know what he need to do to win matches but the way we line up and play, It dosent look like that. So either the players aren't good enough (his fault for bringing them in and playing them?) or they aren't managed correctly (his fault.) He knows after being at Raith how to get in the playoffs in this league and that's exactly what he'll do again this season although he'll be spending a lot more cash to do it. If you want promotion though you need a manager with a better track record than 5 decent months at Raith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pull My Strings Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 12 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said: He knows after being at Raith how to get in the playoffs in this league and that's exactly what he'll do again this season although he'll be spending a lot more cash to do it. If you want promotion though you need a manager with a better track record than 5 decent months at Raith. What's that based on? Is there some particular CV entry which previous promotion winning managers have had that McKinnon lacks? Neilson had done nothing before winning the league. Warburton likewise. Alex Neil had far less experience both as a coach and as a manager than McKinnon has now when he took Hamilton up. Archibald had about five months in the job before taking Partick up. Going way back Billy Kirkwood took United up through the play-offs without doing anything before or after of any note. I suspect you've just pulled that insight out of your arse. Would that be fair to say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poet of the Macabre Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 I don't think it's a stretch to say that just about any decent manager would have easily been able to get United into the play-offs. Finishing in the top four is not an achievement for McKinnon; it's the absolute bare minimum that should have been expected before a ball was kicked. The more concerning thing for United should be the fans turning their back on the team and the fact the squad is absolutely mince. Take away Cammy Bell and Tony Andreu and I don't think there's one standout player in that team. That might be acceptable for a mid-ranking Championship side but this is the second biggest team in the league, one who expected to challenge for promotion back to the top flight. I don't see McKinnon still being in charge at Tannadice by the end of the year. If he is still in charge next season then he'll need to win the league, most likely. Unless United surprise everyone and get promoted via the play-offs, which will make this post look like a rather poor attempt to prognosticate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranaldo Bairn Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Although DU are utter dung, the playoffs are, to some extent, a lottery. For all the possibility that they finish 4th and get horsed by Morton in the QF, they're almost as likely to sneak 2nd, scrape past a Falkirk team in the SF that got booted around the park by Morton, and then meet an abomination of an Accies team in the final and cuff them. Of course the current form table has them heading farther south than Amundsen, but there's time yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingscot Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Tony Andreu shouldn't be in this league to be honest. He looks like he could play a level above easily. What money is he on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadwell Dog Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 28 minutes ago, flyingscot said: Tony Andreu shouldn't be in this league to be honest. He looks like he could play a level above easily. What money is he on? He's a decent player but a bit hit or miss. He's done absolutely nothing against us in the 3 matches we've played them this season but going by reports he's also carried DU in other games. I would presume that DU will only be paying a small % of his Norwich wage and would expect him to be elsewhere next season. Back to mckinnon you need to remember that Raith fans weren't overly enamoured with him either halfway through last season as his initial signings were utterly mince. He was fortunate that a number of them were loan deals he could send back and his second half transfer dealings were a lot better. Problem at United is that he's been unable to punt the majority of his piss poor signings and replace them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stumigoo Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 I've been out the game since Sunday with a horrendous flu so having started to feel more like a human last night it was great to receive a boost from United in Paisley. It felt like it was inevitable considering the current cloud hanging over the club and it has reaffirmed that the United support is definitely fractured (Twitter made for utterly depressing reading last night). Ray McKinnon is definitely out of his honeymoon period. Personally I think he is deserving of more time but that is partly down to my own belief that most managers deserve about 18 months or so to try and build a team and get them settled. He managed to assemble a squad very quickly and there is no doubt that he has signed some dross that he probably now wishes he hadn't but he was tied to a short timeframe initially. Our squad is a bit of a shambles in all honesty, we really have very little to work with. Top 3 was my own hope for this season (Hibs were always going to win it and Falkirk IMO have a very good squad). We are now in danger of limping into the playoffs (barely) and then losing (which causes more grief from the stands). In a strange way I kinda hope we don't get to the playoffs but that would be purely so that we can rebuild with plenty of time and without the false hope of a promotion via the additional 6 games. Realistically, if McKinnon insists with his 4231, we re-sign who I expect and he remains stubborn with Toshney the team for next year looks like - Bell Toshney Durnan Edge New Signing Flood New Signing New Signing Fraser New Signing New Signing Subs featuring - Long (GK), Coote, Robson, Murray, Spittal (I think the club will give him a new deal), other new guys. We are again looking at another 8 or so signings in the summer, another rebuild. With that in mind I don't mind giving McKinnon until Christmas. Not sure if all fans will be so patient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stumigoo Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 3 hours ago, King Dom's Moustache said: Remember the United fan(s) that were celebrating being top of the league at Christmas Minterrific. Why was/is it a minter? Would you expect us to not be happy we were top of the league (especially after such a big win against you just before that?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stumigoo Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 5 hours ago, SimonLichtie said: Is it fair comment to say the vast majority of the morons persistently going on about BALDY SNAKE OUT !!!!111!! are people with very low IQs who have no understanding about how to run a football club, or basic finances? I used to, and still do to a lesser extent, have a soft spot for Utd but these guys are an absolute embarrassment. Why the utter f**k do they expect Thomson to either a - put millions of pounds into the club or b - put the club into large debt again by overspending? Are these clowns a minority who embarrass the rest of the Utd support, or are they growing in number? I genuinely don't know what kind of percentage of our support are in the 'Thompson Out' camp. Actually it is one thing that I would respect this new group trying to do, organising an actual poll or survey (maybe before a game) where we can get a genuine idea of where fans stand. I also think that some football fans don't really understand what a chairman actually does. As you point out I think some fans genuinely believe their job is to bankroll a club and that is it. Not to improve infrastructure, youth setups etc but to just give the club money when they need it. As Thompson has already said, he is willing to sell if someone is willing to pay. He clearly does want out but he is waiting for the right offer, which he is entitled to do. He wants to recoup some of his investment and he doesn't want to just leave us hanging (which if he did just "walk away" would be disastrous). Two things annoy me most about 'Fans United' at the moment - One - Any supporter who disagrees with them is generally met with sneering abuse. They have a real mob mentality about them and they are answering people on Twitter and Facebook with such a sense of "We care about the club, you don't". Anyone who booed or chanted against their protest last week is definitely in the firing line (and were again getting slagged off after the St.Mirren result last night). They use the phrase "real fans" in such a cringeworthy and defiant tone that it is causing real separation. Two - There is no alternative to Thompson that they can present. When this all happened years ago under McLean, Eddie Thompson was incredibly vocal about his desire to own the club and it gave the movement at the time real credibility. At the moment we don't have that and we have a small group of fans shouting for one solution, for Thompson to just move on and leave the club alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonLichtie Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 6 minutes ago, stumigoo said: Two - There is no alternative to Thompson that they can present. When this all happened years ago under McLean, Eddie Thompson was incredibly vocal about his desire to own the club and it gave the movement at the time real credibility. At the moment we don't have that and we have a small group of fans shouting for one solution, for Thompson to just move on and leave the club alone. This is the most ridiculous part of the whole thing. It seems clear to me that, as you say, the majority of these people have no idea what the chairman of a football clubs job actually is. Anyone with half a brain cell can see that Utd would be in a far worse position if Thompson just walked. He has put the club up for sale and, again as you point out, he is quite rightly waiting to get an offer that suits him. In the meantime, he is running the club as best as he can. What do this Fans United group think would happen if Thompson walked away tomorrow? They have absolutely no creditable plan, and they have absolutely no idea about the inner workings of a football club. I'm actually quite embarrassed for them to be honest, and if I was a Utd fan I'd be absolutely losing my shit with them. If there was someone waiting in the wings who wanted to give it a go, surely they would be in the press/ have at least leaked to the fans that they were in a position to take over and at that point I could understand the fans trying to force Thompson to sell if they wanted change. As it is, they have no idea what they want post Thompson. In my opinion they come across as absolute morons. I also see a variety of surposid 'big Utd fans' all over Twitter saying how they don't understand why someone would follow the team home and away, how pointless it is etc etc. They do it because they are Dundee Utd fans for f**k sake. These morons will return when things pick up and suddenly proclaim to be massive Utd fans, how they've been there through thick and thin etc. Again, I am embarrassed for them. What do other Utd fans think would happen be Thompson left tomorrow with no replacement and no buyer? Surely no-one thinks this would be a positive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Poet of the Macabre said: I don't think it's a stretch to say that just about any decent manager would have easily been able to get United into the play-offs. Finishing in the top four is not an achievement for McKinnon; it's the absolute bare minimum that should have been expected before a ball was kicked. That may be an exaggeration but it's only a slight one. With the budget and having been given the ability to bring in more than half the first team squad I think the team under McKinnon has underperformed. 1 hour ago, flyingscot said: Tony Andreu shouldn't be in this league to be honest. He looks like he could play a level above easily. What money is he on? He's head and shoulders above anyone else in the squad. He's been a bit off form of late but seems to have shrugged that off last night. 15 minutes ago, stumigoo said: There is no alternative to Thompson that they can present. When this all happened years ago under McLean, Eddie Thompson was incredibly vocal about his desire to own the club and it gave the movement at the time real credibility. At the moment we don't have that and we have a small group of fans shouting for one solution, for Thompson to just move on and leave the club alone. I was involved in the periphery of United for Change when McLean was effectively forced out by Thomson. The folk at the centre of that organisation were pretty switched on but the biggest asset they had was a man who had a history of supporting the club financially and who publicly stated his ambition. If there are really potential new owners out there why don't they go public so their objectives can be scrutinised by the club's fans. I'm sure if a credible alternative to Thomson was to emerge he/she would get a fair hearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stumigoo Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: That may be an exaggeration but it's only a slight one. With the budget and having been given the ability to bring in more than half the first team squad I think the team under McKinnon has underperformed. He's head and shoulders above anyone else in the squad. He's been a bit off form of late but seems to have shrugged that off last night. I was involved in the periphery of United for Change when McLean was effectively forced out by Thomson. The folk at the centre of that organisation were pretty switched on but the biggest asset they had was a man who had a history of supporting the club financially and who publicly stated his ambition. If there are really potential new owners out there why don't they go public so their objectives can be scrutinised by the club's fans. I'm sure if a credible alternative to Thomson was to emerge he/she would get a fair hearing. I would absolutely love to hear from someone with an interest in buying the club (and as you say, most fans would too). Up until about a year ago a few (and some who now belong to this new fans group) had pinned their hopes on Gordon Deuchars but he has no interest and never really did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 1 minute ago, stumigoo said: I would absolutely love to hear from someone with an interest in buying the club (and as you say, most fans would too). Up until about a year ago a few (and some who now belong to this new fans group) had pinned their hopes on Gordon Deuchars but he has no interest and never really did. I've heard rumours about a dodgy tape featuring a naked Neil Lennon. Not sure of its commercial value though; probably not sufficient to buy the club a 50-50 draw ticket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stumigoo Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 5 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: I've heard rumours about a dodgy tape featuring a naked Neil Lennon. Not sure of its commercial value though; probably not sufficient to buy the club a 50-50 draw ticket. No coincidence that I've been ill since last Friday's game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedLoon63 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 I've been out the game since Sunday with a horrendous flu so having started to feel more like a human last night it was great to receive a boost from United in Paisley. It felt like it was inevitable considering the current cloud hanging over the club and it has reaffirmed that the United support is definitely fractured (Twitter made for utterly depressing reading last night). Ray McKinnon is definitely out of his honeymoon period. Personally I think he is deserving of more time but that is partly down to my own belief that most managers deserve about 18 months or so to try and build a team and get them settled. He managed to assemble a squad very quickly and there is no doubt that he has signed some dross that he probably now wishes he hadn't but he was tied to a short timeframe initially. Our squad is a bit of a shambles in all honesty, we really have very little to work with. Top 3 was my own hope for this season (Hibs were always going to win it and Falkirk IMO have a very good squad). We are now in danger of limping into the playoffs (barely) and then losing (which causes more grief from the stands). In a strange way I kinda hope we don't get to the playoffs but that would be purely so that we can rebuild with plenty of time and without the false hope of a promotion via the additional 6 games. Realistically, if McKinnon insists with his 4231, we re-sign who I expect and he remains stubborn with Toshney the team for next year looks like - Bell Toshney Durnan EdgeNew Signing FloodNew Signing New Signing FraserNew Signing New Signing Subs featuring - Long (GK), Coote, Robson, Murray, Spittal (I think the club will give him a new deal), other new guys. We are again looking at another 8 or so signings in the summer, another rebuild. With that in mind I don't mind giving McKinnon until Christmas. Not sure if all fans will be so patient. Agree with most of that but fraser shouldn't be playing as much as he has been, he's a shitebag. I think Flood is past it also, been out played in the big games...losses the ball too often Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.