Sarto Mutiny Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 20 minutes ago, Alert Mongoose said: Changing manager every season (and during) is a disastrous policy. As a club we are in a downward spiral and this season is now a write off. All we can do is hunker down, give Ray time and aim for a bit of stability. I like Ray McKinnon, but I am starting to be less convinced of him as a manager by the week. I don't think we will sack him unless we fail to get into the play offs, but I am starting to think that there are others out there who could do a better job. Some of whom would actually be insane enough to take the job. It probably comes down to money though - as others have said, can we actually afford to sack him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pull My Strings Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 36 minutes ago, Sarto Mutiny said: I like Ray McKinnon, but I am starting to be less convinced of him as a manager by the week. I don't think we will sack him unless we fail to get into the play offs, but I am starting to think that there are others out there who could do a better job. Some of whom would actually be insane enough to take the job. It probably comes down to money though - as others have said, can we actually afford to sack him? This sort of thinking drives me to despair. Nobody predicted we would win the league this seaon (many hoped we might but no one expected it). More thought we would struggle to make the play offs. In truth we are where we should be in the circumstances - in the fight for second. Given where we were last season and the massive overhaul that was required in the squad it's ridiculous to think about changing the manager again so soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnydun Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 You guys seem like fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raithie Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 The way things are down our way we'd probably take Ray back. Want to swap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonLichtie Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Is it fair comment to say the vast majority of the morons persistently going on about BALDY SNAKE OUT !!!!111!! are people with very low IQs who have no understanding about how to run a football club, or basic finances? I used to, and still do to a lesser extent, have a soft spot for Utd but these guys are an absolute embarrassment. Why the utter f**k do they expect Thomson to either a - put millions of pounds into the club or b - put the club into large debt again by overspending? Are these clowns a minority who embarrass the rest of the Utd support, or are they growing in number? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 13 minutes ago, Pull My Strings said: This sort of thinking drives me to despair. Nobody predicted we would win the league this seaon (many hoped we might but no one expected it). More thought we would struggle to make the play offs. In truth we are where we should be in the circumstances - in the fight for second. Given where we were last season and the massive overhaul that was required in the squad it's ridiculous to think about changing the manager again so soon. Like any manager McKinnon should be judged on two things. The quality of his signings and how well the team play - this will be largely based on selection, tactics and the motivation of the players. There already has been a massive overhaul of the squad and Ray's signings have been a mixture of very good, good and awful. I'm not convinced he will be able to do any better in the summer; we waited ages for him to sign a striker and he signed a total haddie. In terms of team selection, including the use of substitutes, he often makes poor choices. He certainly doesn't seem to know players' weaknesses or if he does he seems unable to address them. I said in my earlier post we need to have a sensible debate. I am not advocating at this time that McKinnon should be sacked but as things stand I do not think that it should be off the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locheedfcno1 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Dufc. The club that keeps on giving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarto Mutiny Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 30 minutes ago, Pull My Strings said: This sort of thinking drives me to despair. Nobody predicted we would win the league this seaon (many hoped we might but no one expected it). More thought we would struggle to make the play offs. In truth we are where we should be in the circumstances - in the fight for second. Given where we were last season and the massive overhaul that was required in the squad it's ridiculous to think about changing the manager again so soon. We are in a slightly odd situation due to the play offs - assuming we do make them. We could scrape into 4th, look rotten for the entire season, and get promoted through the play offs, in which case the manager has been a success. As I said, I don't think we will change the manager, as much as I (and a lot of United fans) are losing confidence in him. My concern is more about the current run of form rather than the league position, and as much as I hope I am wrong about this, I don't get the impression the manager knows how to arrest the slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibby82 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Spirited performance against an effervescent St Mirren side that emptied league leaders Hibs recently. Absolutely nothing to worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Man Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pull My Strings Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 31 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: Like any manager McKinnon should be judged on two things. The quality of his signings and how well the team play - this will be largely based on selection, tactics and the motivation of the players. There already has been a massive overhaul of the squad and Ray's signings have been a mixture of very good, good and awful. I'm not convinced he will be able to do any better in the summer; we waited ages for him to sign a striker and he signed a total haddie. In terms of team selection, including the use of substitutes, he often makes poor choices. He certainly doesn't seem to know players' weaknesses or if he does he seems unable to address them. I said in my earlier post we need to have a sensible debate. I am not advocating at this time that McKinnon should be sacked but as things stand I do not think that it should be off the table. It would have been brilliant if Ray had been able to turn things around and have us top of the league (or still within touching distance of the top) already. The fact that he hasn't managed that means that he's fallen short of brilliant. But we were an absolute shambles latterly under Jackie and throughout Mixu's time. The club wasted a lot of money clearing the decks after those two and are now looking to slowly build back up. But that takes time. As a point of principle, I'd say you need to give a manager a couple of years before you can fairly judge him (unless he gives you exceptional reason to believe that he's going in the wrong direction). McKinnon's made some errors but that's inevitable - all managers make mistakes. I haven't seen any evidence that his work is fundamentally substandard or that he doesn't know what he's doing. Quite the contrary. He seems to be building steadily. The biggest criticism I would have is that he's left himself short of numbers up front and so has lacked options in some games but that's hardly reason to get rid of the guy. On the one hand we have people shitting the bed because we're about to go bust and on the other (usually the same) people moaning that we've not signed enough quality players. I'd say the manager's position should be off the table until we're out of contention for promotion next season. That seems a reasonable and fair timescale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bambino7 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Feel your pain Arab, no, wait so I do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarto Mutiny Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 51 minutes ago, SimonLichtie said: Is it fair comment to say the vast majority of the morons persistently going on about BALDY SNAKE OUT !!!!111!! are people with very low IQs who have no understanding about how to run a football club, or basic finances? I used to, and still do to a lesser extent, have a soft spot for Utd but these guys are an absolute embarrassment. Why the utter f**k do they expect Thomson to either a - put millions of pounds into the club or b - put the club into large debt again by overspending? Are these clowns a minority who embarrass the rest of the Utd support, or are they growing in number? You might think that. I couldn't possibly comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry94 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Pull My Strings said: This sort of thinking drives me to despair. Nobody predicted we would win the league this seaon (many hoped we might but no one expected it). More thought we would struggle to make the play offs. In truth we are where we should be in the circumstances - in the fight for second. Given where we were last season and the massive overhaul that was required in the squad it's ridiculous to think about changing the manager again so soon. There's also the chance that you can still go up this season with a bit of luck in the play offs (I'm a bit bitter how many years we were down and never had the opportunity) so the season isn't actually over. I think a lot of fans really need to realise how much of a b*****d getting out that league is and how you had to rebuild a squad this season to compete with a Hibs side who had three years of building and a massive wage budget for this level. Realistically, you would have been doing very well to finish ahead of Falkirk who are another established side at this level who have also maybe suffered from bad timing with the big three entering the league. Jumping from manager to manager was disastrous for us and probably contributed to us being down for so long. It felt like each season ended in a complete overhaul of late 20s journeymen and we always ended up back in the same place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pull My Strings Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 16 minutes ago, harry94 said: There's also the chance that you can still go up this season with a bit of luck in the play offs (I'm a bit bitter how many years we were down and never had the opportunity) so the season isn't actually over. I think a lot of fans really need to realise how much of a b*****d getting out that league is and how you had to rebuild a squad this season to compete with a Hibs side who had three years of building and a massive wage budget for this level. Realistically, you would have been doing very well to finish ahead of Falkirk who are another established side at this level who have also maybe suffered from bad timing with the big three entering the league. Jumping from manager to manager was disastrous for us and probably contributed to us being down for so long. It felt like each season ended in a complete overhaul of late 20s journeymen and we always ended up back in the same place. Indeed. Short term fixes are fine if you've got a bottomless pit of money but for everyone else the best and most reliable road is to build slowly but surely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedLoon63 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 No chance McKinnon will get punted this season and it would be stupid if we did This season objective was play-offs which we will get but won't go up. If we doesn't win the league next season then yeah he should be gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alert Mongoose Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 There's also the chance that you can still go up this season with a bit of luck in the play offs (I'm a bit bitter how many years we were down and never had the opportunity) so the season isn't actually over. I think a lot of fans really need to realise how much of a b*****d getting out that league is and how you had to rebuild a squad this season to compete with a Hibs side who had three years of building and a massive wage budget for this level. Realistically, you would have been doing very well to finish ahead of Falkirk who are another established side at this level who have also maybe suffered from bad timing with the big three entering the league. Jumping from manager to manager was disastrous for us and probably contributed to us being down for so long. It felt like each season ended in a complete overhaul of late 20s journeymen and we always ended up back in the same place. Agreed though I'm not sure going up this year would actually be a good thing as we would come straight back after getting horsed every week. Stabilise for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackenzie43 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 I've enjoyed United's downward spiral, long may it continue. Can see Queens pipping them to playoffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CupidStunt1875 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 2 hours ago, Sarto Mutiny said: I like Ray McKinnon, but I am starting to be less convinced of him as a manager by the week. I don't think we will sack him unless we fail to get into the play offs, but I am starting to think that there are others out there who could do a better job. Some of whom would actually be insane enough to take the job. It probably comes down to money though - as others have said, can we actually afford to sack him? Had you kept big Mixu I reckon he would have had you challenging us if not top, we haven't exactly been rock solid ourselves. We made a big mistake year's ago in getting rid of Mixu and are still paying for it imo, the guy loved our club but the fans reckoned we were not playing this mythical ( Hibernian way ) of playing football. The hoofball we're playing now is a million times worse yet some think Lennon is some kind of God. The moral of the story is be careful what you wish for. I think you have a guy in charge if given a chance will get you back up next season, It'll be a far easier division than it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 No chance McKinnon will get punted this season and it would be stupid if we did This season objective was play-offs which we will get but won't go up. If we doesn't win the league next season then yeah he should be gone There's a significant difference between reaching the play-offs in second place and reaching them in the spots below: it essentially halves a team's chance of winning them.Dundee United have the second largest budget in the league by a country mile, but are failing to attain the play-off advantage against two sides with much smaller budgets but better sides. McKinnon will utterly fail your objectives then, unless you pull off an upset by winning the entire play-offs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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