The Grass Is Greener. Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 Nacho Rangers died. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nacho Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 18 minutes ago, Romeo said: Sevco boys don't see any difference between getting some of your money back or getting none. No wonder their club died. daft **** seem to think its better to get 7p back in the pound than potentially all of it 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nacho Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 12 minutes ago, The DA said: Consider me suitably chastened. Could you explain it to me please? no bother, what bits are you struggling with? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nacho Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 1 minute ago, The Grass Is Greener. said: Nacho Rangers died. nope 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 both get pennies in the pound and both dont pay their debts, there is zero difference, rangers adminsrators have 24 million in the bank from collier bristow and have a 29 million claim against duff and phelps in the courts now, there is a strong possibility that creditors will get 100% of their money You justify it to yourself anyway you like.Do you know what cva stands for? It contains the word voluntary. That means the creditors actually got to have a say in what they received back. It means they retain a bit of control in the process.If what you say about the liquidation process is true then fantastic, I'll be delighted if creditors receive their money. But it doesn't change the fact that liquidation means the creditor loses any modicum of control over the process. You get what you're given. Not only that but the debtor starts a new company and acts as if nothing ever happened.This isn't just a rangers thing. It's a horrible fact about modern day business in the U.K. The 'Phoenix company' model is all too commonplace. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerberus Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 You scraped up enough money for Walker yet or are you just sticking with shite from Mexico? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DA Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, nacho said: no bother, what bits are you struggling with? The bit where all the good stuff, including titles and trophies, belongs to the ethereal eternal club but the debts incurred in winning those trophies belong to the defunct company. Run that by me again. I never tire of hearing about it. Edited June 25, 2017 by The DA Because 'wining' trophies feels a bit underhand and smacks of corruption. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dindeleux Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 57 minutes ago, nacho said: both get pennies in the pound and both dont pay their debts, there is zero difference, rangers adminsrators have 24 million in the bank from collier bristow and have a 29 million claim against duff and phelps in the courts now, there is a strong possibility that creditors will get 100% of their money Any idea why Rangers had to apply for a license to play in Division 3 Nacho. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 Do you guys know that there's a wee thread on what was formerly the sevco forum called the bralt? -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DA Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 12 minutes ago, bennett said: Do you guys know that there's a wee thread on what was formerly the sevco forum called the bralt? The truth must break out of the ghetto. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 Morally, in terms of running up debts that can't nearly be settled, I'd agree that there is little difference between the behaviour of those formerly in charge of say, Dundee and those who ran Rangers. That's why people who claim Rangers died because they couldn't pay up debt, are on a sticky wicket. In terms of actual fact though, whereby professional football clubs are companies, then something very different happened with Rangers. It happened with Gretna too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nacho Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 2 hours ago, Dons_1988 said: You justify it to yourself anyway you like. Do you know what cva stands for? It contains the word voluntary. That means the creditors actually got to have a say in what they received back. It means they retain a bit of control in the process. If what you say about the liquidation process is true then fantastic, I'll be delighted if creditors receive their money. But it doesn't change the fact that liquidation means the creditor loses any modicum of control over the process. You get what you're given. Not only that but the debtor starts a new company and acts as if nothing ever happened. This isn't just a rangers thing. It's a horrible fact about modern day business in the U.K. The 'Phoenix company' model is all too commonplace. i agree with you on most of that, but as far as i am concerned oldcos liquidation is down to hmrc chasing rangers for money they were not entitled too, we will see if the courts agree with me in the next few weeks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 29 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said: Morally, in terms of running up debts that can't nearly be settled, I'd agree that there is little difference between the behaviour of those formerly in charge of say, Dundee and those who ran Rangers. That's why people who claim Rangers died because they couldn't pay up debt, are on a sticky wicket. In terms of actual fact though, whereby professional football clubs are companies, then something very different happened with Rangers. It happened with Gretna too. Rangers were liquidated because they fucked the HMRC about for years over their tax avoidance/evasion* schemes and further compounded this by denying the existence of side letters exonerating the recipient of tax due when the HMRC were already in possession of some of them. This is why Rangers biggest creditor rejected the proposed cva and they were liquidated. *tbc in court shortly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nacho Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Cerberus said: You scraped up enough money for Walker yet or are you just sticking with shite from Mexico? walker if we do sign him will probably be a squad player 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nacho Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 1 hour ago, The DA said: The bit where all the good stuff, including titles and trophies, belongs to the ethereal eternal club but the debts incurred in wining those trophies belong to the defunct company. Run that by me again. I never tire of hearing about it. no bother , heres various legal, administration and business experts stating it happened and how it happened, now why do you think they are wrong? lord glennie "This is a petition for judicial review by the Rangers Football Club plc, a company presently in administration. That company presently operates Rangers Football Club (to whom I shall refer as "Rangers"). lord nimmo · “It is the club, not the owner, who plays in the league,” he said. “The rules clearly contemplate sanctions upon a club, in distinction to upon the owner or operator. “On the 14thof June 2012 a newly incorporated company, Sevco Scotland Ltd., purchased substantially all the business and assets of Oldco, INCLUDING RANGERS FC” · “Oldco as a company, as distinct from the football management or players of Rangers FC as a club...” lord banntyne "The Rangers Football Club Plc ceased to be the owner and operator of a football team in consequence of the sale to SEVCO Scotland Limited by its administrators on 14 June 2012 of substantially the whole of its business and undertaking, including Rangers Football Club" hmrc “the liquidation route does not prejudice the proposed sale of the club. This sale can take place either through a CVA or a liquidation.” duff and phelps “The Club will continue to operate as it has always done but within a new company structure.” bdo "The joint administrators intend to complete a transfer of the business and assets to a new company in the coming days, putting the future of the club on more secure footing.” 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nacho Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Dindeleux said: Any idea why Rangers had to apply for a license to play in Division 3 Nacho. because it was a seperate league to the spl at that time, do you have any proof it was because we were a new club or is it just a theory with no evidence backing it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DA Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 Just now, nacho said: no bother , heres various legal, administration and business experts stating it happened and how it happened, now why do you think they are wrong? lord glennie "This is a petition for judicial review by the Rangers Football Club plc, a company presently in administration. That company presently operates Rangers Football Club (to whom I shall refer as "Rangers"). lord nimmo · “It is the club, not the owner, who plays in the league,” he said. “The rules clearly contemplate sanctions upon a club, in distinction to upon the owner or operator. “On the 14thof June 2012 a newly incorporated company, Sevco Scotland Ltd., purchased substantially all the business and assets of Oldco, INCLUDING RANGERS FC” · “Oldco as a company, as distinct from the football management or players of Rangers FC as a club...” lord banntyne "The Rangers Football Club Plc ceased to be the owner and operator of a football team in consequence of the sale to SEVCO Scotland Limited by its administrators on 14 June 2012 of substantially the whole of its business and undertaking, including Rangers Football Club" hmrc “the liquidation route does not prejudice the proposed sale of the club. This sale can take place either through a CVA or a liquidation.” duff and phelps “The Club will continue to operate as it has always done but within a new company structure.” bdo "The joint administrators intend to complete a transfer of the business and assets to a new company in the coming days, putting the future of the club on more secure footing.” I'm not referring to the legalities: we could argue all year about that, and have for the past 5 years. I'm referring to the morality of it all. 'We broke the rules, admitted to it and were fined, but we're keeping the proceeds.' 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 Duff and Phelps 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 5 minutes ago, nacho said: no bother , heres various legal, administration and business experts stating it happened and how it happened, now why do you think they are wrong? lord glennie "This is a petition for judicial review by the Rangers Football Club plc, a company presently in administration. That company presently operates Rangers Football Club (to whom I shall refer as "Rangers"). lord nimmo · “It is the club, not the owner, who plays in the league,” he said. “The rules clearly contemplate sanctions upon a club, in distinction to upon the owner or operator. “On the 14thof June 2012 a newly incorporated company, Sevco Scotland Ltd., purchased substantially all the business and assets of Oldco, INCLUDING RANGERS FC” · “Oldco as a company, as distinct from the football management or players of Rangers FC as a club...” lord banntyne "The Rangers Football Club Plc ceased to be the owner and operator of a football team in consequence of the sale to SEVCO Scotland Limited by its administrators on 14 June 2012 of substantially the whole of its business and undertaking, including Rangers Football Club" hmrc “the liquidation route does not prejudice the proposed sale of the club. This sale can take place either through a CVA or a liquidation.” duff and phelps “The Club will continue to operate as it has always done but within a new company structure.” bdo "The joint administrators intend to complete a transfer of the business and assets to a new company in the coming days, putting the future of the club on more secure footing.” Did Gretna survive entirely intact too? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Grass Is Greener. Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 Jelly and ice cream. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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