Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[Mr Heliums]

Always been a hard worker. And before his injury you could see genuine quality. Never the sort of player who should be getting abuse.

[glenrothes 1884 saint]

A perfect example of why abuse shouldn’t get personal, we all get frustrated, but not as much as the players when things go wrong. We’re meant to be supportive to the team, not detrimental, the 200 on Saturday backed them to a man, and I’m sure it helped

[PauloPerth]

That makes for sad reading. Agree with all the above, I've never seen the point in dishing out abuse to one of your own players unless for some twisted reason you had a personal thing against them and want them to fail!  In what way is it ever going to improve things?

I think some folk take out their personal issues on players and don't realise how bad it is to listen to. I sat near a guy who did it to Spoony every time he made a mistake. Eventually I had to say something to him and it was like he broke out of a trance as he turned to face me with mad eyes and spittle all round his mouth and just mumbled something about being entitled to his opinion.

We seem to always need a hate figure in our support. In recent seasons, Gary MacDonald, then Sutton and more recently Cummins. Players who really hadn't done a lot wrong. If someone was picking up a wage, not caring and ripping the piss out of the club I would maybe understand it a bit more.

Cummins gives his all, he's a target man who wins headers, stretches a defence and hasn't got a bad touch at all. It hasn't been great for him in front of goal, but he still contributes to the cause. It's hardly his fault the club haven't managed to buy suitable competition up front. 

[PauloPerth]

17 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

 

We seem to always need a hate figure in our support. In recent seasons, Gary MacDonald, then Sutton and more recently Cummins. Players who really hadn't done a lot wrong. If someone was picking up a wage, not caring and ripping the piss out of the club I would maybe understand it a bit more.

 

* I forgot about Tam Scobbie !!

[Kyle]

Maybe it's just where I'm sitting, but Spoony gets it just as bad if not worse than Cummins. The most recent home match against Aberdeen was being heckled constantly for losing the ball, yet was the only player in our midfield who wasn't hiding, was showing for the ball all over the park and was actually trying to play football.

Cummins gives it everything but this interview underlines the point I made the other day on WAP. I think he needs a move away to really rekindle his career and probably for his own good. He gives us 100% but his confidence is completely shot and dropping behind McMillan and potentially Johnstone in the pecking order before being released at the end of the season looks a distinct possibility to me.

I've read the whole interview and it's quite horrible to read. I've been in a similar situation before too - obviously not as a professional footballer - and he has my sympathy. Hopefully he can grab another couple of goals before the break.

[Widge]

Kyle, I have just said practically the exact same thing about Wotherspoon on WAP. Guys on here are mostly reasonable, but WAP has a different mindset altogether on things.

[Widge]

FWIW here’s what I posted on WAP earlier.


I have a great deal of sympathy for Cummins and to a lesser extent Wotherspoon. There’s guys who moan the instance they come on and frankly both have proven to be decent players who can actually change a game. The number of people in the saints crowd who don’t bother to back a player or the team is so frustrating. Yes every football fan is entitled to their opinion and of course they can lambast who they like, they’ve paid their money and I’ve no issue with that. What I take issue with is not being able to even admit they’re wrong when Wotherspoon scores or Cummins wins a corner/free-kick from good play. A number of fans only see the flaws and it’s so aggravating to hear it. Get behind the guys, the team, the manager. By all means moan under your breathe about a bad ball or roll your eyes when Cummins falls over for the third time, but don’t destroy guys confidence by doing it vocally, I’d say be the bigger man. Stand up applaud the 100% effort a guy like Cummins gives, tell him to pick himself back up and go again. Then come on here and moan about him, where it won’t make things worse.

Everyone is entitled to do and say what they want at a football match and to whomever they please. I’ll always try and shout encouragement or praise at saints players though, all the other stuff gets said a bit quieter to whom ever is around me, so it doesn’t get to the pitch and start a negative feel there too, as that’s the last thing we need. The lack of this so called Football people want is as a direct result of a lack of confidence which in my opinion is stemming from the crowd most of the time.

[PauloPerth]

Good posts Widge and Kyle, agree with the sentiment in both.

 

I did a coaching course many years back and a sports psychologist was talking about the effect on performance negative feedback has.   Without explaining what he was doing, he picked a guy at random out the group and heaped loads of praise on him, built him up, then got him to do a strength test. He then slaughtered the guy, going on about how he had done so poorly during the course, the way he was dressed etc etc, did the same strength test and the result was less than 50% of the previous time.

The point he was showing was that too much negative stress has a huge impact on a player's physical abilities as well as his confidence.

I know some folk will argue they're professionals and have to deal with that, but everyone must have their own limit.  If you're Ronaldo, Messi or Ibrahimovic then it probably spurs you on to ram it down folks throats, but that's why they're worth £60m or whatever.

I always thought it was more of an old firm or big club mentality to quickly turn on players, that fans of smaller clubs were generally a bit more supportive and encouraging. But I'm not sure that is the case, as I haven't seen a great lot of support or encouragement for our players or manager during our recent struggles.

[Fife Saint]

Cummins issues run deeper than a few idiots shouting bad things at him. He's just not a premiership standard forward overall.

[Widge]

Cummins issues run deeper than a few idiots shouting bad things at him. He's just not a premiership standard forward overall.

I agree that he’s a limited player who maybe won’t be a stand out, but he’s shown previously that with confidence and fans backing, which he definitely had when he first joined he was more than capable of scoring and creating goals. As soon as his head and form have dipped, he’s never been the same player.

[tree house tam]

Cummins is nowhere near the worst striker we've had in the top league. He can be frustrating as f**k when he's missing easy chances but you get what you pay for with strikers. Spoony is even more frustrating imo because we all know what hes capable of, just wish he could do it all the time.

 

And speed up a bit, slow as a week in preseason.

[Kyle]

Just now, Widge said:

 

I agree that he’s a limited player who maybe won’t be a stand out, but he’s shown previously that with confidence and fans backing, which he definitely had when he first joined he was more than capable of scoring and creating goals. As soon as his head and form have dipped, he’s never been the same player.

 

I think initially it was the injury that caused the dip rather than confidence. Tommy gave him a 2 and a half year contract on the basis of his early season form whilst he was injured so he would've gotten a boost from that, as well as the security. I think people have only really turned on Cummins over this calendar year and it has really affected his confidence. When he scored his double against Accies, the people sitting near me were absolutely delighted for him. 

He's a decent option for us to have and if he could somehow recapture his early form, he would certainly be a better option than this season's Maclean.  I would agree that he's hardly shown himself as being capable at this level for a while now though, beyond decent sporadic appearances off the bench. He certainly doesn't do enough in games where he starts.

 

 

[RandomGuy.]

Cummins is nowhere near the worst striker we've had in the top league. He can be frustrating as f**k when he's missing easy chances but you get what you pay for with strikers. Spoony is even more frustrating imo because we all know what hes capable of, just wish he could do it all the time.
 
And speed up a bit, slow as a week in preseason.

The only thing I hate about Spoony is the fact he apologies after a poor pass or shot. It's like he just gives up trying something for the rest of the match when he fails to manage it once.

Give him some of May and Swansons arrogance, where they'd just tell anyone who has a go at them to f**k off, and he'd be better off, I reckon.

[RandomGuy.]

In other news, apparently Liam Craig has the most assists per 90 minutes in the league

[Kyle]

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

In other news, apparently Liam Craig has the most assists per 90 minutes in the league

I can quite believe it. That cross he put in for Johnstone's goal was absolutely delicious.

[RandomGuy.]

Apparently Levein has spent today calling us a "physical long ball team" and saying that the high press tactics won't work against us as we "don't play football"

[Cerberus]

5 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Apparently Levein has spent today calling us a "physical long ball team" and saying that the high press tactics won't work against us as we "don't play football"

You learn something ever day.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Levein does know something about football.

[tree house tam]

Just now, Cerberus said:

You learn something ever day.

Speak English bruv.

[SaintDougie]

13 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

Apparently Levein has spent today calling us a "physical long ball team" and saying that the high press tactics won't work against us as we "don't play football"

Hearts rolling out the same old rhetoric  once again I see. 

This game is pretty solid to call in all honesty, both teams each slayed a respective cheek of the proverbial arse last weekend so will likely be feeling very confident to begin with. On one hand it’s Saints away form that is keeping us in the top six as our home form is utterly brutal. On the other hand it’s all the way back in mid-October the last time Hearts played outside Edinburgh so could either find this very difficult, or be glad of a change of scenery. 

All of that aside I expect to see a pretty healthy attendance for this game, mainly due to the afore mentioned, as well as landing a couple of days before Christmas.

 

[Kyle]

Eric Nicholson - the Courier's Saints guy - has been quoted as saying the below;

 

I actually still think Saints will do more business than usual at this time of year. It’s always better to strengthen when you’re in a pretty good position than waiting a window too long. David McMillan has been snapped up from Dundalk and judging by reports and footage online, he looks like a Steven MacLean-type striker. Michael O’Halloran is likely to be off and Craig Thomson hasn’t progressed enough to replace him so a pacy forward will also be on Wright’s wish-list, I would imagine. It would be no bad idea to have the next Chris Millar signed up either. And if Jason Kerr doesn’t have his Queen of the South loan extended, I’d like to see him get a chance.

 

His 'hunches' tend to be better than most for obvious reasons.

 

Losing MOH wont feel like the disaster that it would've done in September, although it would be nice to keep him. If he does go, we need to get a replacement as EN is right - Thomson isn't anywhere near a good enough replacement. We've obviously got Millar until at least the end of the season but we really do need to source his long term replacement in either January or next summer. He's 35 this season and he wont go on forever. Paton isn't in the same class and it diminishes us when he's not on the pitch. He's not given a committal on Kerr one way or the other which suggests to me the club is considering bringing him back in. if he is left out on loan, I wouldn't be surprised if we do bring in another defender as I do think we're short of numbers there. Gilchrist falls into the same category as Thomson for me - he's just not good enough to deputise for/replace the starting players.

 

Can you tell that I'm bored at work again?