Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[harry94]

1 hour ago, Kyle said:

It's half an hour of Tommy Wright bashing really. Signing policy is all wrong, tactics and coaching are all wrong, we don't develop players from within and we don't sign players with view to develop them long term. It's a cacophony of misconceptions and a lot of the stats used to make Wright look worse than he is, completely ignoring anything that views us more positively.

Wright is getting a harder and harder time from people who I think should know better to be honest. He has one of the smallest budgets in the league and has to be pragmatic to keep us competitive, but the armchair statisticians and the 'analysts' on twitter are increasingly using that as an excuse to have a go at him and to have a go at Saints generally. The podcast above, for example, acknowledges that we have the 2nd smallest budget, but then in the next breath questions why more St Johnstone fans aren't calling for Wright's head when we're sitting 8th in the table. We've achieved European football qualification  3 times out of 5 under Wright, won the cup and had 3 successive 4th places finishes prior to this season. Surely the manager has earned the right to have a less successful season (by budget standards we're actually still above where we should really be) and be allowed to try again next season?

It also talks a lot of nonsense about Wright's coaching which seems to stem from that Norwegian Celtic fan in the summer talking about us only playing 1 match and training for 10 days prior to playing Trakai. Anyone actually paying attention will know we played 3 matches (all of which against other clubs in the same European qualifying round as us) and trained for 3 full weeks going in Trakai. That falsehood seems to have stuck - they're happy to ignore our league finishing positions, our excellent form towards the end of most seasons under Wright and how well organised we are generally as a side, albeit not for large spells this season.

They talk generally about this being the first season we've really had to overhaul the squad and it's a big test for Wright, which isn't completely untrue, but they say they don't think he'll be able to 'turn things around' and we'll struggle once they're all gone. Fair enough we've struggled to replace May, Swanson and O'Halloran individually but we've always managed to adapt to losing them and the collective has maintained our position in the league. It's perhaps not so good to watch, but generally speaking Wright has done exceptionally well trying to patch us the side after we lose important players. He's also managed to bring in Shaughnessy for Wright, Fisher and then Foster for Mackay and they've not been anywhere near as missed as I think a lot of his feared they would be (although they are missed). 

The failure to bring in young players/develop our own is just shite really. Clark, Comrie, Kerr, Gordon, McCann, Kane have all come from our youth team and played at times this season. In terms of signings in the past, Anderson, Craig, Davidson, Wotherspoon Easton, Millar - effectively the backbone of our team - were all signed as young players and have stuck with us for a long time. Most of whom have spent the bulk of their playing career here. What more can you ask really? We've more recently brought in Scougall, Alston, Tanser, McClean and Hendry with a view to developing them. Perhaps we haven't sold as many as we would have liked, but we've developed most of those players into top 4 players as our league placings in the past have shown. The more experienced ones are maybe regressing a bit now, but it doesn't diminish what they achieved for us in the past. We seem to be getting bashed for showing loyalty to players, who in turn show loyalty to us.

They say that our signing strategy is wrong because all we do is sign experienced players. This season we've signed Scougall (24), Tanser (23), O'Halloran (27), Johnstone (22), McClean (19), Hendry (19), McMillan (29). Willock (21), Williams (23). 4 loan players, but two of them are out of contract at the end of the season and we could easily have been looking to sign them permanently in the summer. There's plenty of other examples from previous windows too. Fair enough we've supplemented the squad with some experience at times, but it's certainly not on the scale suggested in the podcast.

I remember Wright was a relatively popular manager in Scottish football when he first came in, but I think his age, pragmatism and general moaning has turned a lot of people off him. His moaning certainly grates on me at times, but you can't really question the guy's record in his time at Saints. We're in for a bumpy ride this summer trying to replace excellent players with passable (and probably cheaper) alternatives and you have to fear that it may be beyond Wright to find replacements who are capable of playing at the same standard as the ones he is losing. He does, however, deserve the chance to do so and then deserves the time to make things work if next season starts slowly. 

 

Sorry, that's a bit of a rant.

I've heard a few St Johnstone fans I know actually talk about how they want Tommy Wright to move on in the summer so they can bring in Callum Davidson. That seems utterly mental, no rational football fan should want that sort of change.

He's an arsehole but he's your arsehole and quite good at his job.

[tree house tam]

13 minutes ago, harry94 said:

I've heard a few St Johnstone fans I know actually talk about how they want Tommy Wright to move on in the summer so they can bring in Callum Davidson. 

Don't listen to folk who use the Facebook banter page is rule number one in St Johnstones case.

[Kyle]

32 minutes ago, JamesM82 said:

Stats guys have tended to praise Tommy Wright (at least before this season) because it has been apparent that Saints have had the knack of conceding fewer goals than the amount of possession and shots the opposition have suggest they "should". This has been put down to Saints being well organised defensively, as explained in this piece by "Backpass Rule" from this time last year.

https://thebackpassrule.com/2017/04/30/what-type-of-vodoo-is-tommy-wright-working-at-st-johnstone/

They did with the usual ‘big, physical’ misconceptions that were played out last year. We were and probably still are one of the smallest sides in the league, near the lowest fouls and lowest cards as well. They were much more glowing of Wright last year generally though, I agree. I’m not actually sure what the tipping point was but they’ve gone from some over the top praise to being over the top negative in less than a year! 

[tree house tam]

6 minutes ago, Kyle said:

They did with the usual ‘big, physical’ misconceptions that were played out last year. We were and probably still are one of the smallest sides in the league, near the lowest fouls and lowest cards as well. They were much more glowing of Wright last year generally though, I agree. I’m not actually sure what the tipping point was but they’ve gone from some over the top praise to being over the top negative in less than a year! 

Don't get yourself worked up about it Kyle, stress kills.

[RandomGuy.]

36 minutes ago, harry94 said:

I've heard a few St Johnstone fans I know actually talk about how they want Tommy Wright to move on in the summer so they can bring in Callum Davidson. That seems utterly mental, no rational football fan should want that sort of change.

He's an arsehole but he's your arsehole and quite good at his job.

Absolutely nobody sensible wants that. I bet the fans you're talking too are the same who wanted David Wotherspoon punted so Craig Thomson could have a run on the right wing. 

Although, a few months ago I think I'd be not unhappy if he'd left, it was all stale as f**k. This Summer gives him a chance to reinvigorate things. 

Edited April 25, 2018 by RandomGuy.

[Radford]

Apart from those minor details, did you enjoy the podcast though? @Kyle

I think the main problem with these guys is they just don't get it. Our support was accused of being "smug" the other day but I think Saints fans more than most know our place; we're a small club enjoying an undoubted high point in our history. It's not a lack of ambition but we know there isn't another level for us. In that case, the man that's led us to where we are now deserves to be shown some loyalty, not that he's by any means cashing it in at the moment.

If you take the last 30 years, then seven of the eight clubs you'd imagine to be above us are. What exactly are we expecting Tommy Wright to achieve here?

As for the analysts, as I've said before, their big issue is they don't actually watch live football. In fairness to @TheBackpassRule, the piece referenced above was a step forward from the days of saying everything we did was down to luck at least.

[perthsaint1977]

I shudder every time I hear the suggestion of Callum Davidson taking over.

[tree house tam]

2 minutes ago, perthsaint1977 said:

I shudder every time I hear the suggestion of Callum Davidson taking over.

It'll likely never happen. Why does it make you shudder?

[perthsaint1977]

It'll likely never happen. Why does it make you shudder?

Just a gut feeling he would be a disaster. Nothing more than that.

[RandomGuy.]

3 minutes ago, perthsaint1977 said:

I shudder every time I hear the suggestion of Callum Davidson taking over.

Theres something about him that doesn't fit. Do you think it's inevitable he'll replace Wright? 

I'd sort of hope we have  safe position in the top flight with a month or two left, when TW eventually leaves, and that would give Davidson and if he fails like most expects, we can move on in the Summer. 

[tree house tam]

1 minute ago, perthsaint1977 said:

Just a gut feeling he would be a disaster. Nothing more than that.

Always go with your gut feeling. 

[Lang Toon Saintee]

4 hours ago, tree house tam said:

Don't listen to folk who use the Facebook banter page is rule number one in St Johnstones case.

Oh Jeas that "Banter" page..WTF is that all about  

Edited April 25, 2018 by Lang Toon Saintee

[Poet of the Macabre]

If that's the podcast with Graham Ruthven  then it doesn't really surprise me. Followed him on Twitter for a while and he's a smug p***k. The ultimate football hipster, who says stupid things because it's not in the mainstream.

I honestly hate the man.

Edit- It is. Glad to see it's been a very unsuccessful venture for him so far.

Edited April 25, 2018 by Poet of the Macabre

[Kyle]

http://www.perthstjohnstonefc.co.uk/news/post/recruitment-plans-next-season-already-underway

So to go through that, we're looking to sign 4 outfield players and 1 goalkeeper in the summer. He's looking for a mix of youth and experience, which should send the bois at 2.1 into a frenzy. Age = bad after all.

One of the new players (I'm presuming he counts as a new signing anyway) is George Williams and we're waiting to hear if Fulham plan to take up the option they have in his contract or not. Once it's confirmed that he's being released, Saints will look to move forward with a deal.

We've offered new contracts to all the players we want to keep for next season. The body of the article suggests futures will be sorted in the 'coming weeks' although I note that Tommy himself says that futures should be sorted out 'over the next week or so'.

Sounds like we're being proactive, but there's no mention of signings being 'agreed in principle' like there was at the tail end of last week. I fear Wright has Rory McKenzie'd again and they weren't agreed in principle at all. Maybe I'm just being cynical.

 

Edit: I think we can safely assume that Mark Hurst is one of the players who has been offered a new contract. He's specifically name checked by Wright in reference to next season.

Edited April 26, 2018 by Kyle

[tree house tam]

21 minutes ago, Kyle said:

Sounds like we're being proactive, but there's no mention of signings being 'agreed in principle' like there was at the tail end of last week. I fear Wright has Rory McKenzie'd again and they weren't agreed in principle at all. Maybe I'm just being cynical.

 

Edit: I think we can safely assume that Mark Hurst is one of the players who has been offered a new contract. He's specifically name checked by Wright in reference to next season.

Severe lack of in principle or awaiting medical in that article. Basically everything we knew already.

Aye Hurst looks like being kept, suppose that means McKenzie is off and Sinclair will step into the next great hope category. Hope he does well, good local lad.

[RandomGuy.]

1 hour ago, Kyle said:

http://www.perthstjohnstonefc.co.uk/news/post/recruitment-plans-next-season-already-underway

So to go through that, we're looking to sign 4 outfield players and 1 goalkeeper in the summer. He's looking for a mix of youth and experience, which should send the bois at 2.1 into a frenzy. Age = bad after all.

One of the new players (I'm presuming he counts as a new signing anyway) is George Williams and we're waiting to hear if Fulham plan to take up the option they have in his contract or not. Once it's confirmed that he's being released, Saints will look to move forward with a deal.

We've offered new contracts to all the players we want to keep for next season. The body of the article suggests futures will be sorted in the 'coming weeks' although I note that Tommy himself says that futures should be sorted out 'over the next week or so'.

Sounds like we're being proactive, but there's no mention of signings being 'agreed in principle' like there was at the tail end of last week. I fear Wright has Rory McKenzie'd again and they weren't agreed in principle at all. Maybe I'm just being cynical.

 

Edit: I think we can safely assume that Mark Hurst is one of the players who has been offered a new contract. He's specifically name checked by Wright in reference to next season.

I'd get excited by this if the inevitable three weeks of silence wasn't what followed 

[Dee Bliss]

17 hours ago, tree house tam said:

It'll likely never happen. Why does it make you shudder?

Because he’d be ragdolled by McCann just like Tommy The Grass. 

[tree house tam]

Just now, Yenitit said:

Because he’d be ragdolled by McCann just like Tommy The Grass. 

Think we'll have to disagree on the outcome of McCanns violent outburst.

[Dee Bliss]

7 minutes ago, tree house tam said:

Think we'll have to disagree on the outcome of McCanns violent outburst.

Now if only I had that photo of McCann laughing like f**k on his phone with Tommy The Grass sulking in the background....

 

Terry wins. 

[Tibbermoresaint]

2 minutes ago, Yenitit said:

Now if only I had that photo of McCann laughing like f**k on his phone with Tommy The Grass sulking in the background....

 

Terry wins. 

Was that when Tiny Tears deliberately arranged to be banned from the touchline to hide from Sir Thomas?