Boxing Thread

[Marshmallo]

5 minutes ago, GiGi said:

Spence by 5 

That's exactly what I had.

[GiGi]

10 minutes ago, Marshmallo said:

That's exactly what I had.

Ok. I think that's nonsense so it's good that the cards didn't matter.

[Neilly]

Thought that was a bit of a liberty from Bellew and Khan insinuating Brook should have battled on. The c**t could barely see and bearing in mind his recent eye problem his health is paramount. He genuinely could have carried on 20 more seconds and been blinded what would they have said then? 

Brook is a warrior and showed that in the round he came back after Spence hit him with the kitchen sink.

The top two fights were superb I was going to switch my allegiances to Uncle Frank but I remain Matchroom TID.

 

[J_Stewart]

Yeah but he doesn't lose face fighting against Canelo as he is expected to lose which he obviously did spectacularly.

I think over the last couple years Khan has been avoiding fighting Brook and has used every excuse to do so as he is absolutely terrified of getting sparked out by Brook as he would never hear the end of it and it would be a massive black mark on his resume.

He had nothing to lose by fighting Canelo but had everything to lose fighting Brook.

Whereas I disagree, and, as Pittsburgh Phil said above, think he wanted bigger fights against bigger names than Brook. How many times has Khan called out Mayweather and Pacquaio over the last three/four years? Hundreds. Both would have been more lucrative and tougher fights than Kell Brook, and I have no doubt he'd have taken them if they were legitimately offered. I genuinely think he wants to prove himself as the best.

He definitely wouldn't want to lose to Brook, but to be honest, I've never been impressed enough with Brook to think that he would.

[quickoverayard]

Whereas I disagree, and, as Pittsburgh Phil said above, think he wanted bigger fights against bigger names than Brook. How many times has Khan called out Mayweather and Pacquaio over the last three/four years? Hundreds. Both would have been more lucrative and tougher fights than Kell Brook, and I have no doubt he'd have taken them if they were legitimately offered. I genuinely think he wants to prove himself as the best.

He definitely wouldn't want to lose to Brook, but to be honest, I've never been impressed enough with Brook to think that he would.

Do you honestly think Khan is anywhere near the level of Mayweather and pacquaio?

[Neilly]

What has that got to do with anything?

[Marshmallo]

Mayweather and Pacquiao were not realistic for Khan after getting mauled by guys like Garcia and dropping decisions to Lamont Peterson. Canelo is the money fight for anyone in that weight range and he was expected to get brutally KO'd. He lost nothing taking that fight.

I don't think he's ever been "scared" to fight Brook but I take real issue with the arrogance of thinking he's this huge A side. He fought Algieri and they could only sell 3,000 tickets and had to paper the rest.

His resume has more names on it than Brook's does but no one gives a baker's f**k about him because he's spent so much time pissing about in purgatory in the States fighting guys who don't make ripples in their own market never mind over here (Alexander, Algieri, Peterson). Brook hasn't fought as many names but there's no way Khan is selling 27,000 tickets fighting anyone except Brook.

I also don't see Khan taking a fight like Spence was for Brook last night. When was the last time he fought someone who was hyped as an absolute beast who was favoured to beat him? Garcia was a 5/1 underdog that no one has heard of but I'll give you that one if you want. Everyone since has been safe proven fringe top 5-10 guys without a punch, with the exception of that free swing and career payday against Canelo.

Khan has achieved things in the sport which aren't to be sniffed at but let's not pretend he's a huge megastar or that he was embarrassingly calling out Mayweather or Pacquiao all the time for pure noble sporting reasons. He was after a stack of cash and his ego wouldn't let him admit he needed to do more to earn it.

[J_Stewart]

Just seen an interview with Froch on SSN (recorded last night) where he genuinely stated - and this is verbatim - that if Brook won last night he would be "the best welterweight ever"

U FUCKIN WOT M8?

The official Matchroom VIP cocaine must be absolute rocket fuel!

[dundeefc1783]

Brook confirming the other eye is gone like the GGG fight. Fucking shame on the boy but would think that's him done.

Hope Tony Bellew feels like a right dick after his comments last night now.

[Neilly]

Disgusting from Bellew even on IFL post fight he is saying Brook should have carried on.

Have a word with yourself ya clown.

[J_Stewart]

Mayweather and Pacquiao were not realistic for Khan after getting mauled by guys like Garcia and dropping decisions to Lamont Peterson. Canelo is the money fight for anyone in that weight range and he was expected to get brutally KO'd. He lost nothing taking that fight.

I don't think he's ever been "scared" to fight Brook but I take real issue with the arrogance of thinking he's this huge A side. He fought Algieri and they could only sell 3,000 tickets and had to paper the rest.

His resume has more names on it than Brook's does but no one gives a baker's f**k about him because he's spent so much time pissing about in purgatory in the States fighting guys who don't make ripples in their own market never mind over here (Alexander, Algieri, Peterson). Brook hasn't fought as many names but there's no way Khan is selling 27,000 tickets fighting anyone except Brook.

I also don't see Khan taking a fight like Spence was for Brook last night. When was the last time he fought someone who was hyped as an absolute beast who was favoured to beat him? Garcia was a 5/1 underdog that no one has heard of but I'll give you that one if you want. Everyone since has been safe proven fringe top 5-10 guys without a punch, with the exception of that free swing and career payday against Canelo.

Khan has achieved things in the sport which aren't to be sniffed at but let's not pretend he's a huge megastar or that he was embarrassingly calling out Mayweather or Pacquiao all the time for pure noble sporting reasons. He was after a stack of cash and his ego wouldn't let him admit he needed to do more to earn it.

All of which would be fair points if it wasn't for the fact that:

A) based on Mayweather's recent opponent history he absolutely should have been in contention for a fight with him. Khan beat Maidana who Mayweather fought twice, and is certainly a bigger name and better boxer than the likes of Robert Guerrero and Andre Berto. Khan was quite correctly in the running as a possible opponent, and it was realistic, especially with Floyd not being a big puncher and Khan having a big profile. Pacquaio would spark him in my opinion, but I've no doubt he wanted both of those guys, whether it be for sporting or financial reasons, he wanted those fights and was definitely worthy of them. He nearly agreed for Pac earlier this years and he's now fighting Jeff Horn for f**k sake.

B) Khan absolutely should be the A side in terms of global recognition. It's easy for us to get caught in the Matchroom bubble, but not only would I imagine Khan a bigger name here for the general public, but you go to the states and ask a sports fan who Amir Khan is, generally they'll know, ask who Kell Brook is, and some of them might have seen him get bodied off Spence and maybe GGG, but that'll be it. Khan could easily have stayed in the U.K bubble and built a huge following in Bolton/Manchester, but he tried (and has generally succeeded) to crack America, like Degale is trying to do now. Either approach is obviously perfectly acceptable, but worldwide, Khan is a far bigger star than Brook.

C) in terms of the fight itself and any potential ducking, Khan has been beaten by monster punchers and a PED cheat (pretty sure that loss has been scrapped), Brook isn't a monster puncher at elite level. Hasn't troubled GGG, Porter or Spence in any of the three genuine top level fights he's had, there's nothing in Brook's career to suggest he'd knock out Khan, KO's of Frankie Gavin and Jo Jo Dann aren't really applicable here. You can attempt to brush over Khan's record if you want, but he's fought 13 world or former world champions and lost 3 of those (one to a PED cheat), his resume is light years ahead of Brook's (4 in 37 losing 2 I make it).

Khan gets a lot of undue stick on here and in the UK in general because he's perceived as arrogant for wanting to fight the best (regardless of reason). He's achieved far more than just about any active British boxer just now though, and I don't think that's really arguable.

[dundeefc1783]

Does anyone think Khan might actually be showing signs of his career having an effect on him. His speech seemed terrible last night. I know he is not the best talker generally but he seemed really bad last night

[dundeefc1783]

Disgusting from Bellew even on IFL post fight he is saying Brook should have carried on.
Have a word with yourself ya clown.

Absolute dick of epic proportions the shite he was coming out with during that interview.

[Neilly]

I actually don't mind Bellew he usually talks a lot of sense when analysing boxing but that was just bang out of order last night.

[Marshmallo]

A) Khan beat Maidana in 2011?Maidana was coming off beating up a hugely hyped Broner who was Floyd's apprentice. Guerrero was highly regarded at the time and a lot of pundits predicted him to win that fight with Floyd coming out of jail. Brings the Mexican fanbase too. Berto was a joke and the tiny buyrate reflected that. Some of Mayweather's worst opponents those three - hardly a ringing endorsement.

B) "Global recognition" doesn't equate to dollars though, does it. He was the A side against Algieri and sold THREE THOUSAND tickets. Brook was the A side last night and sold nine times that while fighting on PPV. When was the last time Khan headlined a PPV anywhere as the A side? You can throw "Matchroom" around as an insult if you want but Brook is selling tickets and drawing eyeballs on PPV. Khan is demonstrably doing neither. A strawman in the States doesn't draw a dime.

C) The Peterson loss wasn't overturned. Garcia isn't a "monster puncher" by any stretch but OK. I have already acknowledged that Khan has more names on his resume.

Khan hasn't won in two years as of tomorrow. People don't care any more.

[kiddy]

Good win for Groves, stopping Chudinov whilst fighting on the back foot, under some vigorous pressure.

Unlucky that it appears the Brook fight swung on the eye injury in the seventh. In what had been a very close contest.

Having suffered the same/similar injury in consecutive fights, I think Brook would be best advised to retire. Its not worth risking any sight problems.

[J_Stewart]

Marshy is spot on. Khan chose time on the shelf chasing after Pac and Floyd. The way he whored himself out for those fights was embarrassing but it was his choice. He was entitled to do so. But Floyd ignored him because Floyd fights who he wants. No amount of boxong relevance matters to Floyd because he is/was essentially bigger than the sport.

 

The price Khan has paid is relevance. Only he knows whether it was worth is.

 

Why was it embarrassing though? He was a former unified light welterweight champion who moved up and beat former world champions and tried to get fight's with the current champions/ best in the division? Is that not what every single fighter in the world should be doing? When he didn't get the fight's, he went off and beat more good calibre former champions and tried for the best again. Is that not what Errol Spence Jnr has essentially just done and been widely praised for?

 

Khan is still perfectly relevant. For a start, coming off two stoppage losses, he's the biggest fight available to Brook by miles.

[Marshmallo]

55 minutes ago, J_Stewart said:

 

Why was it embarrassing though? He was a former unified light welterweight champion who moved up and beat former world champions and tried to get fight's with the current champions/ best in the division? Is that not what every single fighter in the world should be doing? When he didn't get the fight's, he went off and beat more good calibre former champions and tried for the best again. Is that not what Errol Spence Jnr has essentially just done and been widely praised for?

 

Khan is still perfectly relevant. For a start, coming off two stoppage losses, he's the biggest fight available to Brook by miles.

He hasn't rematched Garcia or Peterson. He hasn't fought Thurman. He hasn't fought Spence. He hasn't fought Brook. He hasn't fought Porter. He hasn't fought Matthysse. He hasn't fought Crawford. He hasn't fought Vargas. He hasn't fought Bradley. He hasn't fought Marquez. He hasn't fought Postol. There's 12 names for you and I've left off Mayweather and Pacquiao, as well as a Maidana rematch. Every single one of those would be rated above Algieri, Alexander, Collazo, Diaz or Molina. He hasn't fought anything approaching the best fighters in the division.

 

Spence had, at a push, two relevant wins in Bundu and Algieri. Neither of those really blow my hair back. He then got on a plane to go and fight Brook because 1) he's a world champion and 2) it was a PPV fight in a football stadium where Brook was the A side. See where I'm going with this?

 

Biggest fight for Brook would be Mayweather or Pacquiao, should he sit on his arse and wait for them rather than fight Khan?

Edited May 28, 2017 by Marshmallo

[J_Stewart]

He hasn't rematched Garcia or Peterson. He hasn't fought Thurman. He hasn't fought Spence. He hasn't fought Brook. He hasn't fought Porter. He hasn't fought Matthysse. He hasn't fought Crawford. He hasn't fought Vargas. He hasn't fought Bradley. He hasn't fought Marquez. He hasn't fought Postol. There's 12 names for you and I've left off Mayweather and Pacquiao, as well as a Maidana rematch. Every single one of those would be rated above Algieri, Alexander, Collazo, Diaz or Molina. He hasn't fought anything approaching the best fighters in the division.
 
Spence had, at a push, two relevant wins in Bundu and Algieri. Neither of those really blow my hair back. He then got on a plane to go and fight Brook because 1) he's a world champion and 2) it was a PPV fight in a football stadium where Brook was the A side. See where I'm going with this?
 
Biggest fight for Brook would be Mayweather or Pacquiao, should he sit on his arse and wait for them rather than fight Khan?

Doesn't answer the question of why it was embarrassing to try and fight the two best fighters of their generation though does it. I do see where you're going, yes, Brook was the best available fight for Spence when it was made. Thurman, Garcia, Pacquaio were all tied up, so Spence fought Brook, probably also realising he was the weakest of the world champions available. Mayweather and Pacquaio were available to Khan (whether you want to admit it or not) and he went for them, neither fight came off (Floyd's decision, a few fan polls wanted Mayweather to fight Khan before the second Maidana fight remember, so it wasn't that wild a notion), but I don't see why there's any shame in that? In my opinion it's to Khan's credit that he actively wanted to fight the best available.

Those are all fight's I'd like to see / have seen, but let's not pretend they were all available, possible or made sense. Thurman, Porter and Spence were all on their way up and not close to the names they are now, none of those three would have helped get a big fight. When Khan was chasing May/Pac, Postol, Garcia, Matthysse, Peterson and Crawford were all in lighter divisions, and Marquez has pretty much retired (not fought in 3 years). The Brook fight probably should have happened by now, but - if he's to be believed, which I think he is - Khan has had his sights set on bigger things until now.

[J_Stewart]

Its embarrssing to sit on the shelf, taking long spells off and not fighting others, purely because of the fear of a loss and losing your place in the begging queue.

This didn't actually happen though in my opinion, he's been fighting once or twice a year on average since 2014, which, taking Ramadan in to account as well, is perfectly normal I think. During the period he was chasing them, Mayweather and Pacquaio basically had the belts tied up around them as well, so it's not like he could have just gone off and fought another world champion. All roads led to them for success in the welterweights, and that's what he went for.