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Ayr United, What now 2016/17


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Love to see us go full-time but can't see it happening. Dread to think what size of crowds we will get next season if in league 1.


If we perform similarly to Livingston have this season they will go up. (Well the home support will)
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If we're going full time can somebody ask the Dunfermline and Livingston fans where they source their plastic buckets? Might as well get some in, in advance of the administration/liquidation.


Occasionally you have to speculate slightly, no one is remotely saying we should spend miles out with our means, however staying part time and constantly bouncing between divisions is never going to achieve any growth whatsoever.
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This season has probably shown us that part time isn't going to work for Ayr in the Championship.

I'm guessing here, but I would imagine that we are paying out a fair bit of money in 'part time' wages to a few players.

Would we see such a difference in outlay? I don't know but if the rumours are true, and it helps put out a more consistent winning team on the park next season, then surely we would see a decent increase in home attendances in league 1?

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This season has probably shown us that part time isn't going to work for Ayr in the Championship.

I'm guessing here, but I would imagine that we are paying out a fair bit of money in 'part time' wages to a few players.

Would we see such a difference in outlay? I don't know but if the rumours are true, and it helps put out a more consistent winning team on the park next season, then surely we would see a decent increase in home attendances in league 1?


I'd imagine wages for playing staff would have to increase as would associated payroll and pension costs. You would also need to increase behind scenes staff; full time physio etc. On top of that you would also.have increased training costs. Since we require a subsidy most years to stand still, I don't know where the extra money required is going to come from. Even under the Barr years the attendances were cack and came nowhere near to paying the wages and we all know how well that worked out once the subsidy stopped.
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22 minutes ago, AUFC 1910 said:

This season has probably shown us that part time isn't going to work for Ayr in the Championship.

I'm guessing here, but I would imagine that we are paying out a fair bit of money in 'part time' wages to a few players.

Would we see such a difference in outlay? I don't know but if the rumours are true, and it helps put out a more consistent winning team on the park next season, then surely we would see a decent increase in home attendances in league 1?

Really. With three games left we are within three points of safety. Look at some of the terrible decisions made like having no striker for months, playing Donald, resigning injured players, poor choice of loan players and having no team for the first six weeks to name a few. It's no doubt a learning curve coming into this division again but some of those areas don't need full time football to rectify. Pretty sure we would have been safe if better decisions had been made. 

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I'd imagine wages for playing staff would have to increase as would associated payroll and pension costs. You would also need to increase behind scenes staff; full time physio etc. On top of that you would also.have increased training costs. Since we require a subsidy most years to stand still, I don't know where the extra money required is going to come from. Even under the Barr years the attendances were cack and came nowhere near to paying the wages and we all know how well that worked out once the subsidy stopped.

How do other teams manage full time on the attendances they have (Raith, Dunfermline, QOS). Do you think our Chairman has something lined up, or is maybe making more of an investment to make us a more attractive purchase?
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Really. With three games left we are within three points of safety. Look at some of the terrible decisions made like having no striker for months, playing Donald, resigning injured players, poor choice of loan players and having no team for the first six weeks to name a few. It's no doubt a learning curve coming into this division again but some of those areas don't need full time football to rectify. Pretty sure we would have been safe if better decisions had been made. 

Who would you say is to blame, as I agree with your points?

There have been too many 'blunders' this season that have cost us. We have a very experienced manager, so we can't go down the Reid / Roberts lack of experience route.

I would hope that a full time structure would bring a level of professionalism and also consistency in player retention, recruitment and forward planning.
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How do other teams manage full time on the attendances they have (Raith, Dunfermline, QOS). Do you think our Chairman has something lined up, or is maybe making more of an investment to make us a more attractive purchase?

 

I've only seen Ayr Utd's books; so can't comment with any veracity on other teams finances; but maybe Dunfermline nearly being out the game twice and didn't Faith Rovers sell off their ground explain their position in Scottish football.

 

I doubt the chairman is doing anything other than steadying the ship; hoping for a good cup run which means he has to throw less of his cash into subsidising the club.

 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, AUFC 1910 said:


Who would you say is to blame, as I agree with your points?

There have been too many 'blunders' this season that have cost us. We have a very experienced manager, so we can't go down the Reid / Roberts lack of experience route.

I would hope that a full time structure would bring a level of professionalism and also consistency in player retention, recruitment and forward planning.

McCall must shoulder any criticism. This season has been very much like last one. Some good stuff happening, some schoolboy decisions which wreck the good work, overloaded with players in some areas yet none in others and our fate going down to the wire when it could have been sorted easily before.

Although McCall is experienced he might be slightly out of touch in how this league works. The difference could be as small as our loan signings as Dumbarton have found three or four who play well each week whilst what's happened to ours? Some of his interviews are bizarre and he comes across as being left field. Whilst I like him as a manager can't help but think we need an experienced strong number two who could point out or sort the bizarre decisions which make any progress so much harder to achieve.

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1 hour ago, AUFC 1910 said:

Who would you say is to blame, as I agree with your points?

There have been too many 'blunders' this season that have cost us. We have a very experienced manager, so we can't go down the Reid / Roberts lack of experience route.

I would hope that a full time structure would bring a level of professionalism and also consistency in player retention, recruitment and forward planning.

What do 'bringing in a level of professionalism' and 'consistency in recruitment' mean in practical terms?

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How do other teams manage full time on the attendances they have (Raith, Dunfermline, QOS). Do you think our Chairman has something lined up, or is maybe making more of an investment to make us a more attractive purchase?

You have got nowhere near the levels of crowds Dunfermline get, try again.
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What do 'bringing in a level of professionalism' and 'consistency in recruitment' mean in practical terms?

The professionalism part, in my opinion, should be a much clearer, better focus in bringing in as much income as possible and, making the most of those who have an affinity with the club.

Better communication and advertising of events and matches. Earlier opportunities to buy season tickets, strips etc.

All the little bits and pieces that have pissed off supporters over the years and have slowly eroded their willingness to back the team and most importantly the club in the way of finance.

The consistency in recruitment would ideally come from a better infrastructure at the club and a better pathway for younger players associated with the club to come through. Be less dependent on who the manager is and build more of a club with the manager as the figurehead. Something that you might see McCall being involved in in a few years time - director of football type. I'm not saying this is exactly how we should go, or where we should be looking at, but a more settled club with better infrastructure behind the scenes if that makes sense.
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2 hours ago, AUFC 1910 said:

The professionalism part, in my opinion, should be a much clearer, better focus in bringing in as much income as possible and, making the most of those who have an affinity with the club.

Better communication and advertising of events and matches. Earlier opportunities to buy season tickets, strips etc.

All the little bits and pieces that have pissed off supporters over the years and have slowly eroded their willingness to back the team and most importantly the club in the way of finance.

The consistency in recruitment would ideally come from a better infrastructure at the club and a better pathway for younger players associated with the club to come through. Be less dependent on who the manager is and build more of a club with the manager as the figurehead. Something that you might see McCall being involved in in a few years time - director of football type. I'm not saying this is exactly how we should go, or where we should be looking at, but a more settled club with better infrastructure behind the scenes if that makes sense.

I think you'd be pretty disappointed with the reality of full time football tbh.

Would having a full time playing squad affect engagement levels with fans in any way? Fair enough if you think the club could be doing more in that respect but I really don't see how the players having a few extra training sessions a week is going to make the slightest bit of difference. It sounds like you want an overhaul of the club behind the scenes, which I don't think is particularly practical but, if it were, it wouldn't require full time football for it to be implemented.

I'm not sure what exactly constitutes a better pathway for youth players. The ones that are good enough have been making it to the first team and the same will apply for those currently in the youth setup. Most of our youth players will not be good enough. It's not anyone's fault that this is the case - it's just the nature of football. I'm still not really following what you actually mean by consistency in recruitment either. Does this equate to only signing a specific type of player, who has a specific type of attitude and/or suits a specific style of play? If so, I don't think a club operating at our level has the luxury of being as picky as that.

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McCall must shoulder any criticism. This season has been very much like last one. Some good stuff happening, some schoolboy decisions which wreck the good work, overloaded with players in some areas yet none in others and our fate going down to the wire when it could have been sorted easily before.
Although McCall is experienced he might be slightly out of touch in how this league works. The difference could be as small as our loan signings as Dumbarton have found three or four who play well each week whilst what's happened to ours? Some of his interviews are bizarre and he comes across as being left field. Whilst I like him as a manager can't help but think we need an experienced strong number two who could point out or sort the bizarre decisions which make any progress so much harder to achieve.


Yes mistakes have been made but I think a lot of them look particularly bad only in hindsight.

You also use the phrase 'could have been sorted easily' which is a bit of a bugbear of mine. Many of our problems have not arisen due to a lack of effort, or through 'schoolboy errors'. It's dead easy running a football club from behind a screen, and much harder in reality.

Getting players in who are good enough is not an easy thing to do. This is not football manager. I think huge praise has to go to dumbarton for what they've achieved in recent years. That doesn't make it easy, and I'd say they are the exception rather than the rule.

McCall will have to shoulder the blame and many will want him replaced. Whether that happens or not, we'll have to wait and see.
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Getting players in who are good enough is made much harder, by giving wage to a significant number of players who clearly aren't!

Relying on the loan market, and having half your squad serially injury-prone players doesn't help either.

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It's pretty obvious that full time football would be a huge step forward for the youth players.  If nothing else, physical conditioning/stamina etc is critical at that age.  I remember being sceptical about Craig Conways chances of stepping up because he was so slight, though his ability was clear.  A year or so at Dundee Utd and it was hard to believe it was the same player.

I think we've also proved under McCall and Brian Reid that even the best part time players find it hard to compete in a league that is mainly part time.  Despite what Ayr fans may think, the evidence of the last 20 years or so is that part time teams generally struggle at Championship level.  I think McCall has been shown up pretty badly in a lot of ways this season, but training 2 nights a week is always going to put you on the back foot.

In any case, I struggle to see where the money is coming from to support it.  Most teams at our level manage it because they get a bigger subsidy from their owners than we do.  Levels of fan engagement have nothing to do with it.  

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