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Scottish Cup 2016/17


mrman2011

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38 minutes ago, Marr1 said:

Are Glasgow Uni ever going to get Garscube licensed, like Edinburgh did with Peffermill and Aberdeen could do with Hillhead.

They would be probably be better making Garscube into an Edinburgh Uni type ground.

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20 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

It wouldn't surprise me if Meadowbank 3G is suitable.

Criteria to host a tie is the same as when Stirling Uni played at Gannochy, LTHV at Saughton, or when various EOS / SOS clubs hosted ties before undertaking groundworks. Since 2007 only the Amateur qualifiers have had to move (Crichton would have but were drawn away and lost).

I wouldn't have thought it was much different to Newton Stewart.

If not they might just pop next door - Edinburgh City have no game. Edinburgh University and Spartans are away.

I heard from someone the game will take place at Ainslie Park.

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On 14/08/2016 at 17:06, HibeeJibee said:

Again no surprise. PR2 draw:

Leith Athletic v Coldstream
Bonnyrigg Rose Athletic v Burntisland Shipyard
Edusport / Colville v Girvan
Threave Rovers v Linlithgow Rose
Banks o'Dee v Golspie Sutherland



Glasgow University are in a hopeless position with the changes SFA have brought in. I feel sorry for them in some respects.

They'd only won 1 tie since 1969 as it was, but now have to play a month before term begins and against a top Junior side. Today was their first competitive match of 2016-17.

If cup payments are the same as before (i.e. £1,000 for a preliminary round exit) then you wonder if it's really worth them bothering.

Their licence gets some other payments, but renting Airdrie for all their games must be expensive when it's only needed for 0 or 1 matches a season.

How come nobody has spotted yet that:

Beith v Auchinleck Talbot

has been missed out of the posted draw ???

WAKE UP, YOU LOT!!!

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3 hours ago, Smokerson said:

Excuse my ignorance but what is the Criteria for juniors sides being allowed in? Super League East, West and North winners along with Junior Scottish cup winners?

All of that plus any clubs that are SFA licensed - so far, Banks O'Dee, Linlithgow Rose and (for historical reasons) Girvan.

Scottish Amateur Cup winners are also admitted since 2015-16.

(BTW you should have asked what ARE the criteria)

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On ‎15‎/‎08‎/‎2016 at 17:11, cowdenbeath said:

The fact that their French dosn't really come into it, I would say the same about a Scottish Academy without any support, you were trying to compare them with a club which as been established in a town for over 130 years with a solid fan base.

For what its worth I would also say its a farce that BSC "Glasgow" are allowed to continue in the Lowland League while playing in Alloa as clearly they got into the league as they were a Glasgow club and the LL was obviously desperate to have a presence in the city.

You can also say the same about Stirling Uni moving out of the city to play in Falkirk, not that far away but still not in the city their meant to be representing. 

Yes they fufill the rules and meet the criteria but it dosn't really say much about the rules.

Ok, so you decide to change the rules to exclude Edusport, BSCG and Stirling Uni (presumably Glasgow Uni too) - how can you do so but not have to exclude say East Stirlingshire?

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5 hours ago, Smokerson said:

Excuse my ignorance but what is the Criteria for juniors sides being allowed in? Super League East, West and North winners along with Junior Scottish cup winners?

 

And the same criteria also allows for non-Licenced winners of East of Scotland and South of Scotland Leagues to qualify.

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Don't know if EDUsport have a licence or not but would they not have qualified for the Scottish Cup as runners-up in the SoS league since the winners, St Cuthberts are full members of the SFA and are in the cup every year anyway?

From the SoS WIKI page:  Newton Stewart, St Cuthbert Wanderers and Wigtown & Bladnoch are full members of the Scottish Football Association and are therefore allowed to enter the Scottish Cup, as are the winners of the league.

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2 minutes ago, georgyporgy said:

Don't know if EDUsport have a licence or not but would they not have qualified for the Scottish Cup as runners-up in the SoS league since the winners, St Cuthberts are full members of the SFA and are in the cup every year anyway?

From the SoS WIKI page:  Newton Stewart, St Cuthbert Wanderers and Wigtown & Bladnoch are full members of the Scottish Football Association and are therefore allowed to enter the Scottish Cup, as are the winners of the league.

Nope, the place doesn't transfer down the league placings. Similarly, if the winners of the Junior Cup are also the winners of the North, East or West Super Leagues, the place doesn't go to the runners-up.

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4 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

Ok, so you decide to change the rules to exclude Edusport, BSCG and Stirling Uni (presumably Glasgow Uni too) - how can you do so but not have to exclude say East Stirlingshire?

Technically East Stirlingshire play in the east of the old Stirlingshire county so they are still in the area they are from.

Stenhousemuir is all but a suburb of Falkirk these days I don't even think a field seperates the two towns and your lucky if Ochilview is 1 1/2 miles away from Firs Park. Bit of a difference from BSC going from Glasgow to Alloa and even Stirling Uni going to Falkirk.

I suppose the Stirling Uni one isn't too bad but the BSC one is taking the piss.

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Ok, so you decide to change the rules to exclude Edusport, BSCG and Stirling Uni (presumably Glasgow Uni too) - how can you do so but not have to exclude say East Stirlingshire?



"You've got no fans" arbitrary criteria.

Fwiw I do think part of licencing should prevent clubs from moving large distances season to season.

Maximum distance between old and new ground? Clubs can't move more than 5 miles on a permenant basis, with a maximum distance of 15 miles for a temporary move(no longer than 2 seasons)?
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Thing is you are into such murky water now that no such rule change would ever be put through... What would you then do about Clyde who used to play on the Glasgow-Lanarkshire boundary but now play in Dunbartonshire. What about Livingston.

In Edusport's case I think Annan may be a matter of convenience anyway. If they had to play near to campus they might well have done so.

Similarly some attendance criteria could never work. You'd have to assess then independently, and certain other non-league clubs have barely any fans.

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Thing is you are into such murky water now that no such rule change would ever be put through... What would you then do about Clyde who used to play on the Glasgow-Lanarkshire boundary but now play in Dunbartonshire. What about Livingston.

In Edusport's case I think Annan may be a matter of convenience anyway. If they had to play near to campus they might well have done so.

Similarly some attendance criteria could never work. You'd have to assess then independently, and certain other non-league clubs have barely any fans.


Of course, I wasn't being serious. it's aimed at those that seem to believe in a magical number of fans that make you a 'real club'. Attendances of course would't be acceptable to those unless there was some 'real fan' qualification.

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Nope, the place doesn't transfer down the league placings. Similarly, if the winners of the Junior Cup are also the winners of the North, East or West Super Leagues, the place doesn't go to the runners-up.



What happens in that instance, one less team in the draw? Or is it transferred elsewhere?

(Excuse my ignorance!)
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One less team in the draw and Edusport are licensed according to the SFA website. Think evidence of a fan base from an identifiable geographical homebase area is a valid criterion for licensing and there was no obvious reason why the SFA had to pander to an outfit like Edusport other than sheer desparation where attracting clubs to the Lowland League is concerned. If Dalbeattie Star do a Threave, as is looking more than likely, they will probably need another club to step in to keep the numbers up and as things stand that would probably be Edusport.

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If a football team can hire a compliant ground, and tick a few boxes regarding coaching qualifications, medical cover and child welfare, they’re in. Regardless of where that ground actually is.

 

Edusport started off in the Glasgow environs when entering the SoS, moved to Annan to get a licence, if they get into the LL next season I wouldn’t rule out a move to Edinburgh, and if they fancy it they could move back to Glasgow.  BSC are little different with their move to Alloa. They both could be Scotland’s first ever permanent touring teams, a season here, a season there, playing in the 5th tier and in the Scottish Cup.

 

THAT is the major flaw in licencing, a loophole, and it is entirely valid to expect clubs to comply with some form of requirement with regards to a permanent home base and to developing a fan base at that location.  The SFA and others bang on about the positives of fan owned clubs, but what if the club has no fans in the first place?

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If a football team can hire a compliant ground, and tick a few boxes regarding coaching qualifications, medical cover and child welfare, they’re in. Regardless of where that ground actually is.

 

Edusport started off in the Glasgow environs when entering the SoS, moved to Annan to get a licence, if they get into the LL next season I wouldn’t rule out a move to Edinburgh, and if they fancy it they could move back to Glasgow.  BSC are little different with their move to Alloa. They both could be Scotland’s first ever permanent touring teams, a season here, a season there, playing in the 5th tier and in the Scottish Cup.

 

THAT is the major flaw in licencing, a loophole, and it is entirely valid to expect clubs to comply with some form of requirement with regards to a permanent home base and to developing a fan base at that location.  The SFA and others bang on about the positives of fan owned clubs, but what if the club has no fans in the first place?



I agree that it's a bit of a flaw but it's still an exception and just a couple of teams.

Reducing the criteria for getting a licence always opened up the possibility of clubs like this getting a licence.

The biggest flaw to me though is that few other teams have made much progress towards it, I find it hard to believe that Scottish cup entry isn't appealing to the likes of Renfrew or Maryhill
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27 minutes ago, calmac25 said:


The biggest flaw to me though is that few other teams have made much progress towards it, I find it hard to believe that Scottish cup entry isn't appealing to the likes of Renfrew or Maryhill

 

 

That's a very fair point, which raises the point I made earlier on this thread, why aren't the SFA actively promoting club licencing? surely as the governing body they should be out there encouraging clubs to be licenced to help drive up standards (as they see it), providing advice, promoting the benefits. Maybe even reduce or remove entirely the £2k joining fee, and allow clubs to use the money towards meeting requirements.

It's almost as if the SFA don't really care, or don't want an influx of new members.

 

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