LOWLAND LEAGUE - TO BE OR NOT TO BE THAT IS THE QUESTION

[Burnie_man]

He’s the football reporter for the West Lothian Courier, who are probably now part of the same group as the Daily Record, hence why a lot of WLC stories appear on the DR website, although I think this is a specific DR article and not WLC.

 

It will be interesting to see over the next year if Budge manages to achieve any change in attitude, hopefully she does, the league system needs a radical overhaul and a reduction in teams playing nationally. However, I don’t hold out much hope.  

 

As for B teams, I’m 50/50 on the idea, I can see both the benefits and the problems.

[cowdenbeath]

1 hour ago, Burnie_man said:

He’s the football reporter for the West Lothian Courier, who are probably now part of the same group as the Daily Record, hence why a lot of WLC stories appear on the DR website, although I think this is a specific DR article and not WLC.

 

It will be interesting to see over the next year if Budge manages to achieve any change in attitude, hopefully she does, the league system needs a radical overhaul and a reduction in teams playing nationally. However, I don’t hold out much hope.  

 

As for B teams, I’m 50/50 on the idea, I can see both the benefits and the problems.

As long as clubs are happy playing nationally I don't see the problem, I have never ever heard any supporter or indeed an official  of an SPFL side complain about it.  Personally it would hold little appeal to me if Cowden were suddenly lumped with having to play a lot of Fife junior sides.

The main problems with B teams playing on a Saturday would be where would they play and how much fans would watch them if the first team was playing at the same time. The Irn Bru Cup has shown that any B team league game wouldn't be played at a first team stadium if they don't even want to play a cup tie there.

On the other side of the coin Tommy McIntyre makes the point about his players getting good experience playing in the cup but he's only seeing it from a footballing side and not a financial one.

Although the B side thing in the league isn't new and Jock Stein tried to get the Celtic reserve side in the 2nd division back in the late 60s, in fact there is a story about it in next weeks Cowden programme for the Irn Bru Cup tie with them.

[Burnie_man]

To be honest, I don't see too much difference in Cowdenbeath playing Queens Park or Montrose, or Cowdenbeath playing Linlithgow Rose or Hill of Beath. Less travelling and potentially bigger travelling supports boosting attendances.  I find the fact we have two national divisions covering 20 teams, almost all of whom fail to attract over 500/600 on a regular basis - and where travelling supports are scarce - absolutely insane. That is what Budge is driving at, and IMO she's spot on.  that said I understand why, on the face of it, it may not be an attractive prospect to hard core fans of these clubs who enjoy the prestige. I wonder if East Stirlingshire fans will enjoy their stay in the LL.

As for B teams, I'm not sold on the idea, but there's probably more people pushing for that, than there is for reducing the amount of teams playing nationally.

[cowdenbeath]

16 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

To be honest, I don't see too much difference in Cowdenbeath playing Queens Park or Montrose, or Cowdenbeath playing Linlithgow Rose or Hill of Beath. Less travelling and potentially bigger travelling supports boosting attendances.  I find the fact we have two national divisions covering 20 teams, almost all of whom fail to attract over 500/600 on a regular basis - and where travelling supports are scarce - absolutely insane. That is what Budge is driving at, and IMO she's spot on.  that said I understand why, on the face of it, it may not be an attractive prospect to hard core fans of these clubs who enjoy the prestige. I wonder if East Stirlingshire fans will enjoy their stay in the LL.

As for B teams, I'm not sold on the idea, but there's probably more people pushing for that, than there is for reducing the amount of teams playing nationally.

I wouldn't say anyone supports a lower league side for the prestige Burnie. I'm not convinced that our crowds would suddenly go up playing local junior sides.

[Burnie_man]

I can only speak from personal experience from attending lower league games in recent years, the away support is pitiful. 12 Elgin fans at Albion Rovers, 20 Peterhead fans at Stirling Albion are two examples that spring to mind, both on Saturdays and not the proverbial wet Tuesday night. I suppose there’s no guarantee either that all of these fans actually travelled and some didn’t live locally.  Whereas, I was at Cowdenbeath v East Fife a few seasons back and it was a fairly healthy crowd as you’d expect, with a decent contingent from Methil.

 

The way I look at it, if it makes the game more accessible to more people and getting them to go to more games, then that has to be a good thing. Those 12 Elgin fans might be 50 or 60 if they were playing league games closer to home most weeks, instead of having to head to the central belt or Annan and Berwick. I just think regional football for more clubs would be healthier for the game in the long term, four national leagues in a country of our size makes no sense within a pyramid.

[cmontheloknow]

In the West Region, a significant proportion of fans go every week. It seems that the further up the leagues you go, people are more in a 'home games mainly' mindset with the occasional interesting or unusual away one. I do think that that is something that might be different - clubs playing more games closer to hand might see their own away following increase as well as the visiting fans to their own stadium go up. I know there are home and away fans at all levels but it just seems to me that away followings ar proportionally bigger at a more regional evel.

[stanley]

It's good to see some attention given to the pyramid in the press.

I have never been in favour of B teams being part of the pyramid.  I don't really see the point.  I think it devalues the lower leagues and I can't imagine a fan finding the prospect of watching their team against a B team.  I'm far from convinced that there will be big benefits for players in the B team either.  

[HTG]

The need to split the Lowlands into east and west based on population and volume of clubs is blindingly obvious. 

That it didn't happen because the SPFL didn't fancy it tells you all you need to know about thestate of football in this country. A few teams completely fucking up everything that's sensible. 

[Robert James]

2016/17 : in England, Premiership Teams have been allowed to enter Development ("B") Teams into the Football League Trophy, which has hitherto been a competition for Division One & Two clubs only. It hasn't worked, with attendances down by more than 50%. Scotland needs to learn from this. Yes, some regionalisation at tiers 3 & 4 is required to bring down costs, but the real issue is the need for a single/integrated structure for non-league clubs, and automatic promotion & relegation throughout. The SFA should abolish the Junior FA, and replace it with a new integrated non-league body, and a regional 'pyramid' league structure with no glass ceiling.  An integrated non-league (senior/junior) cup is also required. Will it happen ? No !

[Burnie_man]

Oooooft, don't mention regionalisation for League One and Two, the natives go bananas and hunt you down with sharp sticks

There's a lot of things the SFA could and should do, but they wont.

[Robert James]

The Lowland League has exceeded expectations, given the non involvement of Junior clubs, and the  fact is that the SPFL is no longer a closed shop. Suggestions as to how realignment of the seniors and the juniors could improve the pyramid, are interesting, but they ignore the primary question, namely :how many junior clubs would actually want to leave the junior set-up and win promotion to Division 2, even if they could be promoted directly into it as East/West Super League Champions ?

It is surely useless to debate Junior clubs being amalgamated into the pyramid (in whatever structure might be established in the future), if they have no ambition to progress to SPFL membership?  At least it can be assumed that the majority (if not all) of the Lowland League clubs, want to progress upwards, otherwise why did they join the LL in the first place ?

 

 

 

[cmontheloknow]

6 hours ago, Robert James said:

The Lowland League has exceeded expectations, given the non involvement of Junior clubs, and the  fact is that the SPFL is no longer a closed shop. Suggestions as to how realignment of the seniors and the juniors could improve the pyramid, are interesting, but they ignore the primary question, namely :how many junior clubs would actually want to leave the junior set-up and win promotion to Division 2, even if they could be promoted directly into it as East/West Super League Champions ?

It is surely useless to debate Junior clubs being amalgamated into the pyramid (in whatever structure might be established in the future), if they have no ambition to progress to SPFL membership?  At least it can be assumed that the majority (if not all) of the Lowland League clubs, want to progress upwards, otherwise why did they join the LL in the first place ?

 

 

 

I'd say there were few LL sides who'd be an asset to L2. Being seen to want to do something is different to actually doing it and then sustaining it.

[The Mantis]

7 hours ago, Robert James said:

At least it can be assumed that the majority (if not all) of the Lowland League clubs, want to progress upwards, otherwise why did they join the LL in the first place ?

 

You're new around here, aren't you?

[Rab B Nesbit]

The Juniors are coming ... 

[heedthebaa]

22 hours ago, Rab B Nesbit said:

The Juniors are coming ... 

I see two have made their interest public, but there's another big club wanting a move to senior football, how exciting 

[Clayhole Blue]

I see two have made their interest public, but there's another big club wanting a move to senior football, how exciting 

Which clubs?

[heedthebaa]

Just now, Clayhole Blue said:

 

Which clubs?

 

Kelty and Bo'ness 

[newcastle broon]

30 minutes ago, heedthebaa said:

I see two have made their interest public, but there's another big club wanting a move to senior football, how exciting 

Who's that Heed I see Bonnyrigg have went public and said it's a no go from them 

I reckon once Kelty and Bo'ness make the switch heads will turn. 

[calmac25]

Who's that Heed I see Bonnyrigg have went public and said it's a no go from them 
I reckon once Kelty and Bo'ness make the switch heads will turn. 

I took the Bonnyrigg quote as that the EoS wasn't suitable last year when they looked at it.

That might change if other big clubs fancy it. Maybe there will be a few more statements in the coming weeks.

[WaffenThinMint]

14 hours ago, newcastle broon said:

Who's that Heed I see Bonnyrigg have went public and said it's a no go from them 

I reckon once Kelty and Bo'ness make the switch heads will turn. 

It would take a fair wee bit of money to bring New Dundas up to scratch, & not sure their sole sojourn into the Scottish Cup will have given them enough for that.

They could always ask their old player Sir Sean Connery, but as he (& Billy Connolly) have been promising money to Third Lanark to rebuild for nigh on 20 years without dropping one bawbee in their bunnet, best they don't hold their breaths on that miserable old skinflint letting the moths out for some air any time soon.