Suspect Device Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) 17 hours ago, mjw said: Is there any other sport that would require a specific law? I'm struggling to think of any where bigotry and being offensive is part of the day out. Orange order/republican marches?? Not a sport obviously before some pedant pipes up but my point is that it doesn't matter what where the actions occur, the penalty should be the same. How many other laws are specific to one section of the population? The law is meant to be equal and fair across the population so if they bring a law in outlawing offensive behaviour then I wouldn't have as much of a problem with it. Edited January 19, 2018 by Suspect Device 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Baxter Parp said: 'Cos that's where a lot of untrammelled bigotry is. So? Bigotry is bigotry. If you have a law that targets it in general, that subsumes the targeting of it inside football grounds. Or on street corners. Or... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Just now, The Master said: So? Bigotry is bigotry. If you have a law that targets it in general, that subsumes the targeting of it inside football grounds. Or on street corners. Or... How was that law doing? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 16 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said: How was that law doing? Not a clue. But it's irrelevant anyway. The solution to not enforcing an existing law isn't to create new laws that are subsumed by it. You should instead (and this might sound like a radical idea) actually enforce that existing law. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Bullshit, it's not the 19th century anymore, only unionists want sectarianism back to divide Scotlands population for the sake of their precious UK. Are MI5 involved? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, Jeff Venom said: And filed under what? Anyone watch the recent OF game? I take the "minority" clearly audible on tv singing "f**k the pope and IRA" were all arrested and charged, yeah? Errr... Precisely The relatively small proportion of charges under the "Religion" category suggest that in practice this act isn't about sectarian bigoted arseholes but arseholes at the football in general. Veering off, as many are, into discussions on sectarianism in other aspects of West of Scotland society is something of a red herring Edited January 19, 2018 by topcat(The most tip top) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 15 minutes ago, The Master said: Not a clue. But it's irrelevant anyway. The solution to not enforcing an existing law isn't to create new laws that are subsumed by it. You should instead (and this might sound like a radical idea) actually enforce that existing law. Well, If I recall correctly, the fans thought they could get away with whatever behaviour they wanted barring mass violence. Something had to be done and I'm happy with the outcome. As are most Scots. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said: Well, If I recall correctly, the fans thought they could get away with whatever behaviour they wanted barring mass violence. Something had to be done and I'm happy with the outcome. As are most Scots. Ah, politician's logic. Something has to be done; this is something; therefore this should be done. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, The Master said: Ah, politician's logic. Something has to be done; this is something; therefore this should be done. Ah, the no answer that adds nothing to the debate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Just now, Baxter Parp said: Ah, the no answer that adds nothing to the debate. That's a bold accusation coming from you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, The Master said: That's a bold accusation coming from you. Do you want a square go or something? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said: Do you want a square go or something? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suspect Device Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 I'd rather have a square sausage. Or is it lorne/slice. There could be a bigger rammy about that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 5 minutes ago, Suspect Device said: I'd rather have a square sausage. Or is it lorne/slice. There could be a bigger rammy about that. Lorne. Let that be an end to it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossbill Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 38 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said: Well, If I recall correctly, the fans thought they could get away with whatever behaviour they wanted barring mass violence. Something had to be done and I'm happy with the outcome. As are most Scots. I would have to agree with this. The behaviour of fans was spiralling out of control at the time (egged on by players and even managers) - the Neil Lennon bullets through the post incident was a real highlight. Having specific legislation made it clear to fans that they did not have carte blance to act however they pleased, and it seemed to work pretty well (although Rangers and Celtic fans being separated by other circumstances certainly must have helped). I generally wouldn't mind the act being repealed, provided the police started using the breach of the peace powers in identical fashion. I guess there would also have to be new legislation to cover the threatening communications issue for which there is no direct replacement already in place. The main concern I have though is that repeal will be seen by certain sections of society as a green light to revert to their previous behaviour. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodhull Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 I wouldn't mind so much the repeal if there was any indication of something concrete being set up in its place but it just seems like a cynical attempt to appeal to old firm fans for votes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suspect Device Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 26 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said: Lorne. Let that be an end to it. At least we can agree on one thing. Not much else I reckon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suspect Device Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 22 minutes ago, Crossbill said: I would have to agree with this. The behaviour of fans was spiralling out of control at the time (egged on by players and even managers) - the Neil Lennon bullets through the post incident was a real highlight. Having specific legislation made it clear to fans that they did not have carte blance to act however they pleased, and it seemed to work pretty well (although Rangers and Celtic fans being separated by other circumstances certainly must have helped). I generally wouldn't mind the act being repealed, provided the police started using the breach of the peace powers in identical fashion. I guess there would also have to be new legislation to cover the threatening communications issue for which there is no direct replacement already in place. The main concern I have though is that repeal will be seen by certain sections of society as a green light to revert to their previous behaviour. Have you been to a game involving the OF recently? Not much has changed. As for the few very extreme examples of bullets and bomb threats, they were dealt with using other existing laws. I'd also disagree with your comment that it was spiralling out of control. The event that sparked this was a wee spat between McCoist and Lennon. The number of arrests is far lower than I remember from the 70s/80s. That's not to say there's not a problem. It's just exaggerated into hysterics by the media and politicians. That is why the general public (or 80% of them) still think that every football match is a hotbed of bigotry and offensive behaviour. We can see that with the complaints about Aberdeen's new stadium. The locals reckon they will be descended on by ****, Vandals and Visigoths every 2nd week. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Suspect Device said: Have you been to a game involving the OF recently? Not much has changed. What should be done then? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suspect Device Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Just now, Baxter Parp said: What should be done then? Strict liability. The SFA should grow a pair and start taking points off the teams when they start their religious bigotry/pro IRA shite. Fines are no use as the Celtic list of fines from UEFA has shown. They would have to have a list of unacceptable behaviour written up before the season and agreed to by the teams. If they do not agree, they do not get to play in the league. That's for football alone and would negate the need for a discriminatory law. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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