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Granny Danger

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33 minutes ago, ThatBoyRonaldo said:

Real edifying stuff, this.

Political debate at its finest. 

 

44 minutes ago, Peppino Impastato said:

Berwick the britnat really is the perfect example of the cancer that has been destroying labour for years. 

Absolutely vile individual who genuinely believes he's one of the good guys and anybody who doesn't strictly adhere to his extremely narrow tightrope walking version of centrism is dangerous. 

Long may they continue cause labour are scum and watching them implode is the most entertaining thing ever.

You managed to write three sentences without challenging a single thing he said. Well done! :thumsup2

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5 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Political debate at its finest. 

 

You managed to write three sentences without challenging a single thing he said. Well done! :thumsup2

I dont really read his posts

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1 hour ago, BerwickMad said:

Aye, let’s ignore anti-semitism because worse things have happened.

The anti-semitism is nothing to do with Corbyn. 2 people out of of a group of hundreds (probably thousands).

Government officials and other top people in Israel say far worse every day. In fact the Chief Rabbi of Israel called black people monkeys only last week. You'd be be called an anti-semite by the same people that are getting outraged by this recent Corbyn thing if you even pointed out that Israeli society has uncountable vicious racists in very high positions.

Edited by Forest of Dean

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7 minutes ago, Forest of Dean said:

The anti-semitism is nothing to do with Corbyn. 2 people of out of a group of hundreds (probably thousands).

Government officials and other top people in Israel say far worse every day. In fact the Chief Rabbi of Israel called black people monkeys only last week. You'd be be called an anti-semite by the same people that are getting outraged by this recent Corbyn thing if you even pointed out that Israeli society has uncountable vicious racists in very high positions.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-cheif-rabbi-black-people-monkeys-yitzhak-yosef-talmud-sephardic-a8267666.html%3famp

Israeli chief rabbi calls black people 'monkeys'

Struggling to remember this being reported on the BBC or being condemned by the Labour Friends of Israel.

 

 

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The anti-semitism is nothing to do with Corbyn. 2 people of out of a group of hundreds (probably thousands).
Government officials and other top people in Israel say far worse every day. In fact the Chief Rabbi of Israel called black people monkeys only last week. You'd be be called an anti-semite by the same people that are getting outraged by this recent Corbyn thing if you even pointed out that Israeli society has uncountable vicious racists in very high positions.

I didn’t even mention Israel. You’ve straight away gone to talking about what officials in Israel say. These were Jewish people saying enough is enough to anti-semitism following, for whatever reason, the discovery of a comment Corbyn made about an anti-Semitic mural. These were not people defending actions of the Israeli state. You’ve linked the two simply because they’re Jewish. Can’t you see the problem with that?

If Muslims make a stand against Islamophobia over say Zac Goldsmiths mayoral campaign, do you straight away start looking for vile, racist things Muslim officials have said in Iran, Pakistan or another majority muslim country?

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2 minutes ago, DrewDon said:

On the money?  You must be taking the piss.

“Corbyn must take real action and realise that those who are upset don’t just wish the party’s leadership ill.”

 

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On the money?  You must be taking the piss.
“Corbyn must take real action and realise that those who are upset don’t just wish the party’s leadership ill.”
 


What do you disagree with about the article? It sounds pretty even handed and gives a pretty accurate decision as to why this hurts.

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6 minutes ago, Jmothecat2 said:

 


What do you disagree with about the article? It sounds pretty even handed and gives a pretty accurate decision as to why this hurts.

 

I don’t think it’s a totally bad article.  I believe that there are many Corbyn critics who are ONLY motivated by trying to discredit and undermine Corbyn.

I wonder how many of these “Corbyn is an anti-Semite” critics are not rabid pro-Zionists.

 

 

 

Edited by Granny Danger

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2 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

Meanwhile British pro-Zionist Jewish groups are trying to use the existing public attention to box Corbyn into a corner.  He needs to tell them to get to f**k.

He's doing ok. He hasn't yet ceded any ground on foreign policy positions which is what they want him to do if they can't get him out.

I don't think there is a huge benefit in coming out swinging as long as he doesn't give up his policies. His supporters mainly know that this is a cynical attack so that helps.

If it gets much worse he will need to be more direct I feel.

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22 minutes ago, BerwickMad said:


I didn’t even mention Israel. You’ve straight away gone to talking about what officials in Israel say. These were Jewish people saying enough is enough to anti-semitism following, for whatever reason, the discovery of a comment Corbyn made about an anti-Semitic mural. These were not people defending actions of the Israeli state. You’ve linked the two simply because they’re Jewish. Can’t you see the problem with that?

If Muslims make a stand against Islamophobia over say Zac Goldsmiths mayoral campaign, do you straight away start looking for vile, racist things Muslim officials have said in Iran, Pakistan or another majority muslim country?

It matters because the main groups coming out to attack him (LFI, CAA, CST, etc.) have not only been steadfastly against him since the start (due to his support of justice for Palestinians) but are also strong supporters of the state of Israel which is an apartheid racist state. 

Now they are jumping on him because they desperately want him out over anti-jewish racism accusations - not because they are anti-racist but because they only care about one kind of racism.

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I really don't know how to react to people who think the only reason people are angry about the leader of the fucking Labour Party being embroiled in an anti-Semitism scandal is because it's an excuse to put pressure on him. Corbyn's actions are not good enough, his apology was not good enough, his record on this is not good enough and it hurts. It implies a lack of commitment to fighting anti-Semitism. You can't pick or choose which forms of prejudice you oppose if you are going to be the Labour leader. You can't have a grey area on this.

This is the situation we are in: That mural is widely offensive to Jews. It is antisemitic. Jeremy Corbyn posted, in a Facebook group with antisemites, disagreement at the mural being removed. Why would that not cause anger from Labour members and supporters, particularly Jewish ones? Whatever their opinions about Israel or Jeremy Corbyn are do not matter. Why is there so much focus on them? Why not focus on the person who did wrong here, rather than effectively victim blame? That allies of Corbyn aren't criticising him over this says a hell of a lot more about them than it does us. People are justifiably pissed off about this and it's quite incredible that their motives are being questioned so much considering how blatantly obvious it is why people are pissed off.

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There are loads of leftists (myself included) who think Labour can and should do much better in challenging endemic anti-semitism within the party and on the broader left. That doesn’t dismiss the fact that elements of the Tory Party and the centre-right of the party are using this for their own political gain but the best response is to get the left’s house in order and take anti-semitism as seriously as any other form of racism. It’s not like the left doesn’t owe a huge debt of gratitude to Jewish people and their voices need amplified further than they are.

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39 minutes ago, Jmothecat2 said:

I really don't know how to react to people who think the only reason people are angry about the leader of the fucking Labour Party being embroiled in an anti-Semitism scandal is because it's an excuse to put pressure on him. Corbyn's actions are not good enough, his apology was not good enough, his record on this is not good enough and it hurts. It implies a lack of commitment to fighting anti-Semitism. You can't pick or choose which forms of prejudice you oppose if you are going to be the Labour leader. You can't have a grey area on this.

This is the situation we are in: That mural is widely offensive to Jews. It is antisemitic. Jeremy Corbyn posted, in a Facebook group with antisemites, disagreement at the mural being removed. Why would that not cause anger from Labour members and supporters, particularly Jewish ones? Whatever their opinions about Israel or Jeremy Corbyn are do not matter. Why is there so much focus on them? Why not focus on the person who did wrong here, rather than effectively victim blame? That allies of Corbyn aren't criticising him over this says a hell of a lot more about them than it does us. People are justifiably pissed off about this and it's quite incredible that their motives are being questioned so much considering how blatantly obvious it is why people are pissed off.

Using the example of Rothschild removing a mural with Lenin in it to justify keeping the mural showed he knew exactly what he was saying.

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I really don't know how to react to people who think the only reason people are angry about the leader of the fucking Labour Party being embroiled in an anti-Semitism scandal is because it's an excuse to put pressure on him. Corbyn's actions are not good enough, his apology was not good enough, his record on this is not good enough and it hurts. It implies a lack of commitment to fighting anti-Semitism. You can't pick or choose which forms of prejudice you oppose if you are going to be the Labour leader. You can't have a grey area on this.

This is the situation we are in: That mural is widely offensive to Jews. It is antisemitic. Jeremy Corbyn posted, in a Facebook group with antisemites, disagreement at the mural being removed. Why would that not cause anger from Labour members and supporters, particularly Jewish ones? Whatever their opinions about Israel or Jeremy Corbyn are do not matter. Why is there so much focus on them? Why not focus on the person who did wrong here, rather than effectively victim blame? That allies of Corbyn aren't criticising him over this says a hell of a lot more about them than it does us. People are justifiably pissed off about this and it's quite incredible that their motives are being questioned so much considering how blatantly obvious it is why people are pissed off.
I'm not an ally of corbyn, and certainly not a member of the labour party - but this issue pisses me off greatly.

Your opening sentence sums up the issue: "being embroiled in an anti-semitism scandal".

Who decides when a mistake becomes a bigger issue, and who decides when an issue becomes a full blown scandal?

I'm looking at the background of corbyn and there's absolutely nothing there to suggest to me he is bigoted in any way. Not even close.

He clearly made a mistake with the post about the mural and a full apology for that mistake was important. But arms and legs are being added by his opponents within the labour party who are seeing a chance to strike.

I've got no skin in the game but my take on it is that there are 'pockets' of anti-semitism, rather than a wholesale problem.

Nothing I've read comes close to the few clear examples of racism that anas sarwar faced recently. I absolutely hate sarwar's politics but the comments made about him and his wife were shocking. Again though, I don't think it's a widespread problem - and more the case of a few racist dicks needing dealt with.

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Right, so now we have the recently elected head of the internal disputes panel of the Labour Party, Christine Shawcroft resigning. She sent an email on SUNDAY opposing the suspension of a Labour candidate who denied the holocaust. She claimed that the candidate was victim of a ‘partisan dispute’ rather than antisemitism.

The Times say her email was sent to 10 recipients, including Jon Lansman and Jennie Formby. It’s taken until tonight for her to stand down, and only after being exposed by The Times.

Some people need to wake up.

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37 minutes ago, BerwickMad said:

Right, so now we have the recently elected head of the internal disputes panel of the Labour Party, Christine Shawcroft resigning. She sent an email on SUNDAY opposing the suspension of a Labour candidate who denied the holocaust. She claimed that the candidate was victim of a ‘partisan dispute’ rather than antisemitism.

The Times say her email was sent to 10 recipients, including Jon Lansman and Jennie Formby. It’s taken until tonight for her to stand down, and only after being exposed by The Times.

Some people need to wake up.

Anyone who denies the holocaust is an anti-Semite IMO.  Anyone who tries to protect or support a person expressing such blatant anti-Semitism leaves themselves in a vulnerable position and should be disciplined accordingly.

Those are individual examples of anti-Semitism inthe Labour Party and I can’t recall anyone on here denying that there are such examples.

I would be in favour of politicians who hold uncritical views of Israel to be held to account.  The Israeli apartheid regime is vile yet there are many Labour MPs who openly support it. 

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