welshbairn Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Just now, Wee Willie said: I forgot about them I was surprised that North Korea has 24 million poor souls. Maybe we could give them the nukes, at least they might use the things, doubt we ever would. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Just now, welshbairn said: I was surprised that North Korea has 24 million poor souls. Maybe we could give them the nukes, at least they might use the things, doubt we ever would. Right, I posted about the possibility of referendums in an independent Scotland and we have had several pages for and against. We should now wait until the day after independence then send a link (P&B political forum) tae the Scottish government. They can then take it from there. And we should expect a few thanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 11 minutes ago, welshbairn said: What, they've bombed Glasgow! Right, we'll destroy Moscow and you can destroy Washington and we'll call it quits. Any actual nuclear conflict is too bizarre to think about rationally, the whole point is deterrence which is ridiculed as a concept because it has actually worked. Interesting points. I think there are a whole load of folk who are a bit uncomfortable with the whole unilateral disarmament bit that was pushed by the yes camp in 2014. R u proposing we somehow keep a share in trident when Scotland is independent? I thought we couldn't fire them without Americas permission anyway and that it was never an independent nuclear deterrent. Is this a matter that should be decided by one of "wee willies" referendums? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terracingtam Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 3 minutes ago, Wee Willie said: Right, I posted about the possibility of referendums in an independent Scotland and we have had several pages for and against. We should now wait until the day after independence then send a link (P&B political forum) tae the Scottish government. They can then take it from there. And we should expect a few thanks. The day after independence, that will be akin to the day after tomorrow. Never can or will come. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Just now, terracingtam said: The day after independence, that will be akin to the day after tomorrow. Never can or will come. I'm a pragmatist and a realist and you could be right. But that is only your opinion. At least I'm keeping my options open 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 The day after independence, that will be akin to the day after tomorrow. Never can or will come. Maybe not in your days auld yin. But it's coming and it's been slowly coming since 1979. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shades75 Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 21 minutes ago, welshbairn said: What, they've bombed Glasgow! Right, we'll destroy Moscow and you can destroy Washington and we'll call it quits. Any actual nuclear conflict is too bizarre to think about rationally, the whole point is deterrence which is ridiculed as a concept because it has actually worked. The good sense of one Russian submarine captain in 1962 did more to avert a nuclear war than any "deterrent" did. The other two captains were not deterred. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 5 minutes ago, terracingtam said: The day after independence, that will be akin to the day after tomorrow. Never can or will come. And her comes an idiot to try and ruin a good discussion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 (edited) 26 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said: Interesting points. I think there are a whole load of folk who are a bit uncomfortable with the whole unilateral disarmament bit that was pushed by the yes camp in 2014. R u proposing we somehow keep a share in trident when Scotland is independent? I thought we couldn't fire them without Americas permission anyway and that it was never an independent nuclear deterrent. Is this a matter that should be decided by one of "wee willies" referendums? Apparently it's a myth that we can't fire them, they're physically entirely in our control if not diplomatically, but the politics wouldn't matter if it got to that stage. My opinion is we should get rid of them, but I don't think it's an easy or clear cut decision, practically or morally. Despite being basically against wee willie's referendums, it would make a more powerful global message for nuclear disarmament if we decided by means of a referendum. Maybe even a virtue signal. Edited January 20, 2017 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Personally, I want to get rid as well. However the whole trident problem and the britnats big stick, could be nullified, if rather than being all CND, the yes camp pledged to hold a referendum within 5 years of independence. There is leverage potential here. If we were to agree to lease the base out, even on a temporary basis. We would have rUK nuts in a vice. They would have to splash the cash fast in Devonport (or more likely West Wales). I'm sure on our disarmament we would also be due an asset share for our part owned submarines and systems also. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 18 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said: Personally, I want to get rid as well. However the whole trident problem and the britnats big stick, could be nullified, if rather than being all CND, the yes camp pledged to hold a referendum within 5 years of independence. There is leverage potential here. If we were to agree to lease the base out, even on a temporary basis. We would have rUK nuts in a vice. They would have to splash the cash fast in Devonport (or more likely West Wales). I'm sure on our disarmament we would also be due an asset share for our part owned submarines and systems also. Totally agree, more leverage versus the rUK than Russia if we handle it right. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 8 hours ago, welshbairn said: Apparently it's a myth that we can't fire them, they're physically entirely in our control I suspect if we decided to eliminate Des Moines we might find out different. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 9 hours ago, git-intae-thum said: And her(e) comes an idiot to try and ruin a good discussion. There's always one 9 hours ago, welshbairn said: Apparently it's a myth that we can't fire them, they're physically entirely in our control if not diplomatically, but the politics wouldn't matter if it got to that stage. My opinion is we should get rid of them, but I don't think it's an easy or clear cut decision, practically or morally. Despite being basically against wee willie's referendums, it would make a more powerful global message for nuclear disarmament if we decided by means of a referendum. Maybe even a virtue signal. Despite being basically against wee willie's referendums I re-iterate. I'm talking about Scotland post Independence and no about the UK. if we decided by means of a referendum So ye think Trident would make a good issue for a referendum. I would also suggest that the other points I made would be equally as good. I hope that when Scotland is independent then we have lots of referendums like the Swiss do. In a nation of 5m a referendum is a tidy way of getting the electors thoughts/wishes. 1. Do you want Trident in Scotland y/n 2. Do ye want our armed forces tae go half-way round the world tae bomb somebody y/n (On reflection I'm guessing that widnae need tae be asked) 3. Dae ye want us tae bide in the EU y/n 4. Dae ye want us tae leave the EU y/n (A one off answer) 5. Dae ye want us tae keep the monarchy y/n and so on... _____________ That's down tae three referendums. I'm sure we could cope with that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 You might not get the results you want, http://whatscotlandthinks.org/questions/if-scotland-became-independent-should-it-continue-to-host-trident-or-not http://whatscotlandthinks.org/questions/what-are-your-views-on-the-monarchy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamamafegan Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Corbyn to attack SNP budget plans in Glasgow speech - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-38683298 Wolf in sheeps clothing 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bully Wee Villa Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Read that. It looks like he is making specific (or at least, general) points about SNP economic policy, while their response is personal attacks on him. I don't know enough about Scottish politics but I'd have thought the SNP might defend their own policies rather than just hiding behind "Labour's not relevant" rhetoric. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 24 minutes ago, welshbairn said: You might not get the results you want, http://whatscotlandthinks.org/questions/if-scotland-became-independent-should-it-continue-to-host-trident-or-not http://whatscotlandthinks.org/questions/what-are-your-views-on-the-monarchy Whit dae ye mean? What on earth is the way I vote got tae dae with referendums. What I want is for the people of Scotland to decide the big issues. Whether they agree with me or no isnae the argument. If they decided tae keep the monarchy and Trident then so be it. I widnae be chuffed but that's democracy in action. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 26 minutes ago, jamamafegan said: Corbyn to attack SNP budget plans in Glasgow speech - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-38683298 Wolf in sheeps clothing or sheep in wolf's clothing 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Read that. It looks like he is making specific (or at least, general) points about SNP economic policy, while their response is personal attacks on him. I don't know enough about Scottish politics but I'd have thought the SNP might defend their own policies rather than just hiding behind "Labour's not relevant" rhetoric. They've got a branch manager up here who they can defend their own policies to.That clown would be better served staying in London and sorting his own policies out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 7 minutes ago, mjw said: They've got a branch manager up here who they can defend their own policies to. That clown would be better served staying in London and sorting his own policies out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.