General Politics Thread

[NotThePars]

You can't argue with most of the content of that post. I like gd as a poster so I'm not so sure of the first two paragraphs.

 

The point about brexit is particularly relevant. I'm an example of someone from a working class background going to uni and becoming one of the urban, educated types that were so shocked by brexit. That divide is very real, and writing huge swathes of people off like that is unacceptable.

 

 

 

 

It’s positively dripping, once again, with the notion that white working class men who call people “p***s” and “c****s” are the most authentic working classes and should be indulged.

[Jmothecat2]

Working class people aren't all racist, homophobic and ignorant. He's an MP, an elected representative of the people, including the people he has belittled with those comments. He was at the event in a professional capacity and those words are completely unacceptable in all workplaces but even moreso as an MP, a group who have to be held to the highest standard. That he can be an MP and not know those words are unacceptable is shocking, quite frankly.

[Bully Wee Villa]

Agreed. It's somewhat condescending to working class people to suggest that they should be exempted from criticism for being arseholes. Plenty of working class people are capable of educating and informing themselves to the level where they don't come across as bigots.

If anyone in a workplace starts using homophobic or racist language, they won't have their class background means-tested to find out if they get working class exemption from arseholery, they'll just get sacked.

[ayrmad]

2 hours ago, The Chlamydia Kid said:

He’s spent his life working as a postman, doing a proper working class job, surrounded by proper working class men, in a proper working class area. It might come as a big surprise to some of you on here who cast themselves as defenders of the working class....but that’s exactly how vast swathes of working class men speak.

In my experience it's how vast swathes of every demographic of men speak once they've had a few.

[Bully Wee Villa]

Not necessarily, but if they were reported they would find themselves in the shit.

[bob the tank]

In my experience it's how vast swathes of every demographic of men speak once they've had a few.

Maybe among friends or at a push, in the pub, but the man is in an elected representative role in society. He should know right from wrong and how to behave in his position, simple as that. Age, class and background are no excuse for being a dick.

[WILLIEA]

15 minutes ago, ayrmad said:

In my experience it's how vast swathes of every demographic of men speak once they've had a few.

That's as may be. Civilisation is a thin veneer and all that.

It is however a veneer worthy of protecting and reinforcing imo.

[Ira Gaines]

Oh look, TCK is white knighting bigots again. Must be... pretty much any day of the week.

[Granny Danger]

4 hours ago, The Chlamydia Kid said:

He’s spent his life working as a postman, doing a proper working class job, surrounded by proper working class men, in a proper working class area. It might come as a big surprise to some of you on here who cast themselves as defenders of the working class....but that’s exactly how vast swathes of working class men speak.

 

3 hours ago, The Chlamydia Kid said:

  If you don’t want one then fine- don’t vote for him- problem solved. By the nonsense that comes out your mouth I’m guessing you don’t stay anywhere near coatbridge anyway...

You are absolutely obsessed by the notion of education you utter snob. So basically you want working class people who have cast off their class background? Having a university education is no real barometer of intellect or capability.

Large proportions of graduates, particularly in the social type subject, who would be attracted to politics, have been Immersed in a particular world view. One that you clearly have! It is defeating the full purpose of “education” where I’d have thought, you should question everything, instead of having unquestionable taking for granted truths.

Basically what you want, is previously working class people who have cast off their working class background! How working class are you really when you go to full time education for 4 years and work in a professional role? How do you represent the interests and outlook of those that have done manual jobs, trades etc?

Analysis in the aftermath of Brexit shows that one of the biggest social divides in our society is between the educated and the not educated- yet you want to perpetuate an even bigger rump of politicians that are even further removed from the populous.

Snob?    Firstly I am working class and, whilst I got an MBA later in life. I do not have an undergraduate degree.  Neither of my sons received a further or higher education; they are both very much working class too.

I was active in the Labour Party for 20 years and met many university educated working class people who have not "cast off their working class background"; I have met many who have.  

But, yes, I want intelligent and educated folk to be at the fore of political life and we should be striving to have more folk from working class backgrounds getting access to further and higher education.  I certainly do not want ignorant and/or uneducated folk heading up our political parties.

Some of the worst folk I encountered in politics were stupid folk who were too stupid to realise they were stupid.  They are the sort of folk who would vote for Trump or May.

 

 

[Chapelhall chap]

" the sort of folk who would vote for Trump or May" in both cases were not "the majority of people in the UK and America ". Both Trump and May were voted in on minority votes. As for Gaffney I largely agree with you that this is an over reaction to his remarks.

[John Lambies Doos]

Depends on your workplace. You trying to tell me a builder, a spark, a factory worker, a stockroom worker etc general recoil in horror when a colleague uses such terms?

But can they lift a 3 seater couch upstairs utilising only their pinky finger?

[welshbairn]

So because he's working class he's too thick to know the difference between what he might get away with in the pub with mates, and addressing a public meeting?

[Granny Danger]

38 minutes ago, The Chlamydia Kid said:

Your final comment illustrates your utter arrogance. You believe the majority of people in the UK and America are operating on an inferior intellectual basis to yourself.

 

You assume that the values you have acquired are beyond question and that any alternative view point is invalid.

 

A complete and utter, arrogant snob.

The only sort of folk who would vote Tory or Republican are:

a) wealthy folk with a vested interest; and

b) thick and/or self deluded folk.

 

[WhiteRoseKillie]

A bit pedantic. More folk in the UK voted for May than did for anyone else. He would I assume extend the same logic to Brexit voters and probably No voters as well...

Grand grasp of the political process, there. In fact, both Corbyn and Abbott had bigger majorities than May's total return.

[ayrmad]

10 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

The only sort of folk who would vote New Labour or Republican are:

a) wealthy folk with a vested interest; and

b) thick and/or self deluded folk.

 

 

[btb]

2 hours ago, The Chlamydia Kid said:

Depends on your workplace. You trying to tell me a builder, a sparky, a factory worker, a stockroom worker etc general recoil in horror when a colleague uses such terms?

They'd be careful about where they said them, even on the factory floor its the 21st century. 

I'm assuming Gaffney got selected on the Buggins Turn principle, anyone who couldn't foresee this as the likely outcome is a dinosaur - pea-brained and outdated.

[Granny Danger]

19 minutes ago, The Chlamydia Kid said:

 

Utter rubbish not even worthy of a response.

And yet you responded...

[Bully Wee Villa]

The only sort of folk who would vote Tory or Republican are:

a) wealthy folk with a vested interest; and

b) thick and/or self deluded folk.

 

 

Absolutely correct.

 

I can sort of understand the wealthy running scared of any sort of progressive politics, and fearing any reconstruction of the economic system which could be perceived to leave them less well off. I think they're selfish arseholes for the way they vote, but at least I understand why they would do it.

 

Poor people who vote for those who want to make it easier for the wealthy to sack or mistreat the impoverished, who want to increase the gap between rich and poor and would like to undermine or abolish public services that the poor are disproportionately reliant on are just unbelievably, and undeniably, thick.

 

[NotThePars]

 

Absolutely correct.

 

I can sort of understand the wealthy running scared of any sort of progressive politics, and fearing any reconstruction of the economic system which could be perceived to leave them less well off. I think they're selfish arseholes for the way they vote, but at least I understand why they would do it.

 

Poor people who vote for those who want to make it easier for the wealthy to sack or mistreat the impoverished, who want to increase the gap between rich and poor and would like to undermine or abolish public services that the poor are disproportionately reliant on are just unbelievably, and undeniably, thick.

 

 

At the same time those people for a long time weren’t being given any reason to vote for the nominally left parties. Working class racists aren’t going to actively impoverish themselves if you give them a sustained positive reason to vote for liberal/ leftist parties. Unfortunately the Democrats and the Remain campaign in 2016 didn’t acknowledge this and paid the price with abject campaigns focused on suburban moderate conservatives and the well off who it turns out still hate them. It remains to be seen whether they’ll learn the lesson that you have to give people a reason to vote for you that goes beyond just voting against the other guy and from what I’ve seen of the FBPE lot and the resistance in the USA they’re not going to learn that lesson.

[Wee Bully]

6 hours ago, The Chlamydia Kid said:

He’s spent his life working as a postman, doing a proper working class job, surrounded by proper working class men, in a proper working class area. It might come as a big surprise to some of you on here who cast themselves as defenders of the working class....but that’s exactly how vast swathes of working class men speak.

Bigot's gonna bigot