welshbairn Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 10 minutes ago, Jmothecat2 said: No, I don't think criticising the Israeli government is antisemitic, nor even criticising Israel as a state however I do think calling for a boycott of the country, comparing it to Apartheid and people from the country at film festivals, whilst defending an antisemite (and repeating his argument) and saying antisemitism is 'understandable' as a whole does make him antisemitic. There are plenty of critics of Israel who aren't antisemites, but it's clear a lot of the criticisms of Israel are antisemitic. Apartheid is a fair description of Palestinian rights v Settler rights in the West Bank, I would say. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 23 minutes ago, Jmothecat2 said: I do think calling for a boycott of the country, comparing it to Apartheid and people from the country at film festivals, whilst defending an antisemite (and repeating his argument) and saying antisemitism is 'understandable' as a whole does make him antisemitic. You clearly don't understand what anti-Semitism is, which is no real surprise. Come back when you've educated yourself. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Israel is an apartheid state. It's treatment of Palestinians and even some Jewish populations could reasonably be described as apartheid. Plenty of anti-Zionist Jewish leftists have argued this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmothecat2 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 You clearly don't understand what anti-Semitism is, which is no real surprise. Come back when you've educated yourself. Did you watch the video in the first clip as I'm not sure how listening to that, then putting his anti-Israeli arguments into your mind and his claims that Israel's actions make antisemitism understandable as anything short of antisemitism. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 1 minute ago, Jmothecat2 said: I'm not sure how listening to that, then putting his anti-Israeli arguments into your mind and his claims that Israel's actions make antisemitism understandable as anything short of antisemitism. As I've already pointed out, you don't understand what anti-Semitism is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmothecat2 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 As I've already pointed out, you don't understand what anti-Semitism is. Ken Loach is someone on the extreme end of the anti-Zionist cause. He doesn't simply want to criticise Israel's government, he doesn't believe Israel should exist at all. As I said above that in itself doesn't necessarily mean you are an antisemite. However when you listen to him defending an antisemite, and in that defence actually repeating and agreeing with the antisemitic claim he made, when you look at what he has said about antisemitism in the past it gives his antizionism a whole new context. He is not someone the Labour Party should be giving a standing ovation to (not simply for his potential antisemitism mind) and I can't help but wonder what our comrades in the Israeli Labor Party think. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProgressiveLiberal Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 1 hour ago, welshbairn said: Apartheid is a fair description of Palestinian rights v Settler rights in the West Bank, I would say. I would agree. Can't see how you could see it any other way. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Jmo, stop embarrassing yourself and please, stop pretending you've got any socialist blood in you. Your hero Tony has gone, his policies and actions discredited. You may believe that was a Labour party, those of us with longer memories know and, indeed, knew better.Now, however, Labour is back, and those of us who stuck to our principles, to the socialist movement and not to a label are rejoicing. How many Jewish delegates will it take for you to believe that the party is not anti-Semitic?Instead of cliping from the sidelines, watch as delegate after delegate from all over this country display a united, optimistic, and confident front. Our time is now, our cause is just, and our leader is a man of principle. This is socialism, this is the future. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmothecat2 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Jmo, stop embarrassing yourself and please, stop pretending you've got any socialist blood in you. Your hero Tony has gone, his policies and actions discredited. You may believe that was a Labour party, those of us with longer memories know and, indeed, knew better.Now, however, Labour is back, and those of us who stuck to our principles, to the socialist movement and not to a label are rejoicing. How many Jewish delegates will it take for you to believe that the party is not anti-Semitic?Instead of cliping from the sidelines, watch as delegate after delegate from all over this country display a united, optimistic, and confident front. Our time is now, our cause is just, and our leader is a man of principle. This is socialism, this is the future. What conference have you been watching? Delegates have been literally booed for suggesting we should stay part of the single market (which is effectively Labour's position considering we aren't taking a vote on it this year so last year's position still stands). Many of Blair's policies are still ones supported by the party, it's those policies we (all of us, Corbyn included) are trying to defend from the vicious Tory cuts. A few Jewish delegates doesn't convince me of anything when overwhelmingly Jews are deserting the party and voting for other parties. Watching it being swept under the carpet concerns me. You seem to think I should just be a cheerleader for the party and not air my opinions when I disagree with aspects of it. I'm still a member, I still campaign but a lot of what is going on is making me deeply uncomfortable. When the party moved in a direction you didn't like you literally left the party, now when it's moved in a direction I don't like I'm supposed to just be a happy clapper and not express my disagreements with aspects of what we are doing? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Not really wanting to latch onto JMO's wee act here, but I wonder if WKR rejoices every time the Corbyn led Labour party votes with the Tories on the subject of the EU, before going on to complain about the very things they voted for. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Not really wanting to latch onto JMO's wee act here, but I wonder if WKR rejoices every time the Corbyn led Labour party votes with the Tories on the subject of the EU, before going on to complain about the very things they voted for. In fact, it's the Tories who are stealing Labour's position on leaving the EU, but don't let the facts get in the way.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmothecat2 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 https://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/people-are-angry-labour-is-using-a-picture-of-brighton 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 What conference have you been watching? Delegates have been literally booed for suggesting we should stay part of the single market (which is effectively Labour's position considering we aren't taking a vote on it this year so last year's position still stands). Many of Blair's policies are still ones supported by the party, it's those policies we (all of us, Corbyn included) are trying to defend from the vicious Tory cuts. A few Jewish delegates doesn't convince me of anything when overwhelmingly Jews are deserting the party and voting for other parties. Watching it being swept under the carpet concerns me. You seem to think I should just be a cheerleader for the party and not air my opinions when I disagree with aspects of it. I'm still a member, I still campaign but a lot of what is going on is making me deeply uncomfortable. When the party moved in a direction you didn't like you literally left the party, now when it's moved in a direction I don't like I'm supposed to just be a happy clapper and not express my disagreements with aspects of what we are doing? I like your spirited defence. I disagree with your concerns, but I like the spirited defence. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Stubbs Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 There can't be many events in this world more cringey than a Labour conference. Oh ya fucker. Thornberry definitely likes a wee toke. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 In fact, it's the Tories who are stealing Labour's position on leaving the EU, but don't let the facts get in the way.. Which position is it today? Which position is it 2mr? Lets play brexit bingo with labour 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 9 minutes ago, doulikefish said: Which position is it today? Which position is it 2mr? Lets play brexit bingo with labour I'd assume he means a past position. Even then, WRK's post was utterly meaningless. Because despite it, Labour still voted with the Tories and then complainined about what they voted for. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, WhiteRoseKillie said: In fact, it's the Tories who are stealing Labour's position on leaving the EU, but don't let the facts get in the way.. Whatever. Name one thing that Labour would change about the Tory Brexit policy if they won power tomorrow. Edited September 25, 2017 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandmagyar 2nd String Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Whatever. Name one thing that Labour would change about the Tory Brexit policy if they won power tomorrow. Sod all. The hard left cabal of Corbyn, McDonnell and Thornberry are more anti EU than most Tories. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Sod all. The hard left cabal of Corbyn, McDonnell and Thornberry are more anti EU than most Tories. #forthemoneynotthefew 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmothecat2 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 #forthemoneynotthefew Blairite slogan. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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