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Granny Danger

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4 hours ago, Bishop Briggs said:

I'm not white knighting anyone. It was not legal for Milo, under-age at the time, to be abused by the priest. 

Do you honestly believe that Milo's abuse (or "experience" as the abuser's apologists might put it) had no effect on his character or views?

Even vile characters have equal rights, including the right not to preyed upon.

 

The vast majority of abuse victims don't end up an absolute scumbag like Milo though so I'm not sure what you're trying to do here other than white knight for a nonce-enabling, blackmailing, racist, transphobic and misogynistic bigot tbh.

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On 20/02/2017 at 16:08, Sooky said:

Theresa May made an unprompted visit to Stoke today. Suggestion that they feel the UKIP vote there is collapsing?

 

On 20/02/2017 at 17:55, doulikefish said:


Trying to drum up support for Nuttall probably

More than likely trying to ensure Labour keeps the seat, regardless of what the local Tory branch wants, & it's not hard to see why. It's pretty clear that Tony Blair has pretentions on setting up a splinter party with as much of the old Labour Party as he can coax across, but that will only be delivered if Labour loses both seats this week which will make Corbyn's position untenable to the vast majority of the MPs (knowing their seats could all be next come the next GE) and virtually all the party's remaining financial backers who see the Corbynistas as Student Grant writ large.

On the face of it such an idea would appear to be long term suicide, were it not for the fact there's a badly wounded Liberal Democrats desperate to get back into the big time who would certainly consider yet another alliance of convenience with a "social democratic" Labourite splinter, same as all those decades ago; & who would happily campaign for "new Alliance" candidates in return for the credibility of being part of a pseudo party with seats in the hundreds instead of less than 10.

This of course would be disastrous for Tinfoil Teresa, unless the Argies decide to go for the Falklands again, so by stopping any more Tories loaning their votes to the Kippers, she stops Labour from losing a battle, but ultimately dooming them to losing the electoral wars to come.

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-39037605

An Israeli soldier who shot a Palestinian whilst he was lying on the ground has been jailed for 18 months for manslaughter.  The Palestinian had just stabbed another soldier but had been wounded and was apparently incapacitated when he was shot.

Apparently shooting someone dead whilst they are lying on the ground wounded and apparently incapacitated is manslaughter and not murder; at least if you are an Israeli soldier and the victim is Palestinian.

Netanyahu is amongst those already calling for a pardon.  So apparently some folk, including the Israeli Prime Minister, think he shouldn't even serve the derisory 18 months.

The reason we are supposed to support Israel is they are a bastion of liberal Western style democracy in a region of dictators and despots.  Mmm....

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30 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-39037605

An Israeli soldier who shot a Palestinian whilst he was lying on the ground has been jailed for 18 months for manslaughter.  The Palestinian had just stabbed another soldier but had been wounded and was apparently incapacitated when he was shot.

Apparently shooting someone dead whilst they are lying on the ground wounded and apparently incapacitated is manslaughter and not murder; at least if you are an Israeli soldier and the victim is Palestinian.

Netanyahu is amongst those already calling for a pardon.  So apparently some folk, including the Israeli Prime Minister, think he shouldn't even serve the derisory 18 months.

The reason we are supposed to support Israel is they are a bastion of liberal Western style democracy in a region of dictators and despots.  Mmm....

The guy in the red circle is the murderer, bottom left is the barely alive terrorist/enemy soldier. Heat of battle excuse eh?

btselem%20gun.png

 

Edited by welshbairn
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I'm not sure exactly why, but the case was downgraded to a manslaughter one on the initiative of Israeli prosecutors. It was originally a murder investigation. It's not entirely clear from what I've read whether there were evidential issues at the earlier stage that made a murder charge not viable or if some other reason brought it about. Clearly at the very least a criminal conviction was warranted in this case and the punishment seems very lenient.

It is at least a mark of a democratic and accountable society that a soldier like that is prosecuted at all. I doubt Hamas make a habit of court-marshalling those they send to fire rockets on Israeli civilians.

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5 hours ago, Ad Lib said:

I'm not sure exactly why, but the case was downgraded to a manslaughter one on the initiative of Israeli prosecutors. It was originally a murder investigation. It's not entirely clear from what I've read whether there were evidential issues at the earlier stage that made a murder charge not viable or if some other reason brought it about. Clearly at the very least a criminal conviction was warranted in this case and the punishment seems very lenient.

It is at least a mark of a democratic and accountable society that a soldier like that is prosecuted at all. I doubt Hamas make a habit of court-marshalling those they send to fire rockets on Israeli civilians.

Whataboutery, I doubt Israeli pilots are court-martialed for bombing the shit out of Palestinian civilians either.

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6 hours ago, Ad Lib said:

I'm not sure exactly why, but the case was downgraded to a manslaughter one on the initiative of Israeli prosecutors. It was originally a murder investigation. It's not entirely clear from what I've read whether there were evidential issues at the earlier stage that made a murder charge not viable or if some other reason brought it about. Clearly at the very least a criminal conviction was warranted in this case and the punishment seems very lenient.

It is at least a mark of a democratic and accountable society that a soldier like that is prosecuted at all. I doubt Hamas make a habit of court-marshalling those they send to fire rockets on Israeli civilians.

To be fair they have been quite busy turning children into soldiers and suicide bombers.

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10 hours ago, Ad Lib said:

I'm not sure exactly why, but the case was downgraded to a manslaughter one on the initiative of Israeli prosecutors. It was originally a murder investigation. It's not entirely clear from what I've read whether there were evidential issues at the earlier stage that made a murder charge not viable or if some other reason brought it about. Clearly at the very least a criminal conviction was warranted in this case and the punishment seems very lenient.

It is at least a mark of a democratic and accountable society that a soldier like that is prosecuted at all. I doubt Hamas make a habit of court-marshalling those they send to fire rockets on Israeli civilians.

 

5 hours ago, AUFC90 said:

Whataboutery, I doubt Israeli pilots are court-martialed for bombing the shit out of Palestinian civilians either.

Why stop there?
I doubt American pilots are court-marshalled for 'friendly fire' or British pilots for bombing ISIS in Syria and possibly killing civilians.

 

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4 hours ago, Cerberus said:

To be fair they have been quite busy turning children into soldiers and suicide bombers.

The idea of child soldiers and/or child suicide bombers is a truly horrific one.  It's shocking to think that such things are going on in the world.

Sadly if you deny people a legitimate and democratic way of achieving a valid goal then terrorism will be what they will turn to; that in turn may well result in some terrible and unconscionable acts including the use of children.  

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6 hours ago, AUFC90 said:

Whataboutery, I doubt Israeli pilots are court-martialed for bombing the shit out of Palestinian civilians either.

Hamas deliberately targets unarmed civilians with rockets. Israel does not hide its weapons and explosives in hospitals. Hamas is quite literally using injured people and children as human shields.

Edited by Ad Lib
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8 minutes ago, Ad Lib said:

Hamas deliberately targets unarmed civilians with rockets. Israel does not hide its weapons and explosives in hospitals. Hamas is quite literally using injured people and children as human shields.

Yeah Israel just ups and murders folk, doesn't care who knows.  Much better.

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5 hours ago, Cerberus said:

To be fair they have been quite busy turning children into soldiers and suicide bombers.

Just now, Baxter Parp said:

To be fair every Israeli citizen does two years and eight months in the military.

Not even related.

I'm sure you understand the difference between national service (Israel is not alone in this) and recruiting and training children to carry out terrorist attacks.

 

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2 minutes ago, Shanghai Loon said:

Not even related.

I'm sure you understand the difference between national service (Israel is not alone in this) and recruiting and training children to carry out terrorist attacks

Depends on the regime that's training them for national service and what it expects them to do.

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18 minutes ago, Ad Lib said:

Hamas deliberately targets unarmed civilians with rockets. Israel does not hide its weapons and explosives in hospitals. Hamas is quite literally using injured people and children as human shields.

Can't argue with that but we also need to consider the outcomes.  Over and above the repression and general despotic treatment of large swathes of the Palestinian population at the hands of the Israelis, far more Palestinian civilians and children have been killed by Israel than vice versa.

Israel is the main protagonist in this conflict; it will not be resolved until the Israeli government genuinely want to resolve it and we seem as far from that being the case now than at any point in the past.

 

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On 20/02/2017 at 16:08, Sooky said:

Theresa May made an unprompted visit to Stoke today. Suggestion that they feel the UKIP vote there is collapsing?

 

On 20/02/2017 at 16:34, welshbairn said:

You wouldn't expect May to announce the visit for security reasons, but with the state of UKIP and Labour you never know. Can't find any recent polls but 10/1 sounds a bit tempting. Double it up with Copeland and you'd get 14/1, but not sure if the bookies would allow that. 

Just cashed in my small bet after seeing a picture of the Tory candidate.

C3C15GzWIAEnYvq.jpg

 

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Hamas deliberately targets unarmed civilians with rockets. Israel does not hide its weapons and explosives in hospitals. Hamas is quite literally using injured people and children as human shields.

How do you know that Israel doesn't hide these weapons in hospitals? The only acceptable answer will be that you have inspected ALL premises.
I'm not getting into a whataboutery session with you, Hamas have their faults & are obviously a determined opposition to the Jewish state and will countenance any method to achieve this, but what separates their ideology to that of Israel regarding the 2 state option? Which Hamas want.
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