Making a Murderer

[Bert Raccoon]

Just finished The Jinx as well. Captivating stuff, what a crackpot.😅

[StreetwiseHercules]

Where can one watch The Jinx?

[Forfinn]

Where can one watch The Jinx?

 

It's available on Now TV.  After having finished MaM at the weekend, I'm looking forward to watching The Jinx too.

 

MaM was excellent television.  Hard to believe at times that it was real-life and not a ridiculously far-fetched courtroom drama.  The middle episodes in particular were compulsive viewing.

 

Strang and Buting were without doubt the stars of the show and the only major players to come out of it looking good.  You got a genuine sense from them that they cared about the justice system and not just the dollars they were receiving to represent Avery.

 

As for the verdicts, I can't help but think of Occam's Razor.  It would take a particularly fantastical conspiracy, with multiple parties complicit, for Steven Avery to be innocent of the murder.  As much as the police and prosecution were clearly guilty of various forms of misconduct, I think it's more likely Avery did it than didn't do it.

 

That said, the prosecution were hell-bent on the conviction rather than working out what actually happened to Halbach.  They might have got the right result, but the methods were flawed, and on that basis, a retrial to establish what really happened would seem to be fair.

 

I've got to feel particularly sorry for Brendan Dassey though.  His confession was clearly coerced and he's been totally screwed by the system.  Like Avery, I wouldn't be surprised if he does in fact know something about it, but that tale of rape, hair-cutting, stabbing, throat-slitting and shooting is clearly nonsense.  Again, a retrial would seem fair and one where the fruits of Len Kachinsky's unprofessionalism can be discarded.

 

What astonished me time after time during the series was how much the prosecution and media were allowed to say about the case in public.  In particular, when Kratz sat down after Brendan's first confession and told the world that they "now know what happened to Teresa Halbach" and proceeded to describe the scene in graphic detail.  That destroyed any chance Avery and Dassey had of getting a fair trial and would never have been allowed in this country.

 

Anyway, Steven Avery has a new hotshot lawyer on his case now who's shooting her mouth off on Twitter about how she's going to get him off.  Sounds a bit like an attention-seeking ambulance chaser, but she seems to have a track record of getting convicted murderers released.  So whether he's guilty or not, it seems as if the story is far from over yet.

[1320Lichtie]

Where can one watch The Jinx?

Last time I looked it was on Sky Anytime.

[MarkoRaj]

Like Avery, I wouldn't be surprised if he does in fact know something about it,

Is there any evidence at all for that though? Aside from the false confession there is literally nothing linking him to the murder.

With Avery, I just don't see how there can be no physical evidence at the crime scene. He is a borderline simpleton and yet there is not one ounce of blood apart from a small speck in his car.

Again, if you discard the evidence that looks as though it has been tampered with, is there enough evidence to convict? Genuinely don't see how you could convict either with the available evidence

[sergie's no1 fan]

The victims car is the clincher for me.

1. Why didn't he use his crusher to destroy the car? Why would he leave it on his property?

2. The woman that 'found' the car in his yard stumbled across it after a short space of time, have you seen the size of that yard? Could have been luck, or she could have been pointed in that direction.

3. The rat of a cop who read out the plates of the missing vehicle 2 or so days before it had been 'discovered' then getting flustered in court when questioned about it, he even denied he read out the plates.

[IainMorton]

The victims car is the clincher for me.

1. Why didn't he use his crusher to destroy the car? Why would he leave it on his property?

2. The woman that 'found' the car in his yard stumbled across it after a short space of time, have you seen the size of that yard? Could have been luck, or she could have been pointed in that direction.

3. The rat of a cop who read out the plates of the missing vehicle 2 or so days before it had been 'discovered' then getting flustered in court when questioned about it, he even denied he read out the plates.

 

Or the fact that when they ran a DNA test on the car key that was 'found' they only found Avery's DNA, and not that of the person that happened to drive the damn car.

 

Another thing that always annoyed me was Halbach's brother, and his attitude when speaking to the press. He always said that Avery was the one that killed his sister and had full faith in the police, at one point saying he loved them. But for some reason he always seemed kinda chirpy, not the kind of person who had his sister brutally murdered 18 months before. Something dodgy going on with him I think.

[sergie's no1 fan]

Or the fact that when they ran a DNA test on the car key that was 'found' they only found Avery's DNA, and not that of the person that happened to drive the damn car.

Another thing that always annoyed me was Halbach's brother, and his attitude when speaking to the press. He always said that Avery was the one that killed his sister and had full faith in the police, at one point saying he loved them. But for some reason he always seemed kinda chirpy, not the kind of person who had his sister brutally murdered 18 months before. Something dodgy going on with him I think.

Yep, the DNA on the key and the way the key was discovered too raises obvious suspicions.

[paisleysaints]

Yep, the DNA on the key and the way the key was discovered too raises obvious suspicions.

Yeah it just feel on the floor after the place had been searched many time before brilliant lol

 

Anyway i thought this new lawyer had everything in place to free them.  Is anything happening or are they waiting on a tv deal

Edited April 27, 2016 by paisleysaints

[sergie's no1 fan]

Yeah it just feel on the floor after the place had been searched many time before brilliant lol

Anyway i thought this new lawyer had everything in place to free them. Is anything happening or are they waiting on a tv deal

Found by the police officer who stitched him up before which resulted in the law suit against the police force, and they shouldn't have been involved with the murder case anyway!

[banana]

Ooft, The Jinx is some show. Loved the way the writers went back and forward in time to make reveals and counter-reveals as the show progressed.

 

That final scene too, wow.

[54_and_counting]

 

As for the verdicts, I can't help but think of Occam's Razor.  It would take a particularly fantastical conspiracy, with multiple parties complicit, for Steven Avery to be innocent of the murder.  As much as the police and prosecution were clearly guilty of various forms of misconduct, I think it's more likely Avery did it than didn't do it.

 

thing is, if you take away all the tampered and made up evidence, the prosecution have absolutely dick all in the way of real evidence that he did it, the complete lack of evidence other than the tampered stuff would struggle to get a case before a judge nevermind a full jury

[YHallSaint]

I see Robert Durst has been sentenced to 7 years for a firearm charge while still awaiting trial for the murder of the Mafia boss's daughter

[Forfinn]

I see Robert Durst has been sentenced to 7 years for a firearm charge while still awaiting trial for the murder of the Mafia boss's daughter

Could we avoid spoilers for a show that this thread isn't about?

[banana]

Could do with splitting all these posts to a The Jinx thread, tbh : http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php/topic/230578-the-jinx/

Edited April 29, 2016 by banana

[paisleysaints]

Brendan Dassey could finally be released seems his conviction is being overturned? Not read full story for a headline or two.

[heedthebaa]

Could be out in 90 days 

[The OP]

Definitely think that is the correct decision.

 

Steven Avery is still guilty as hell though. 

[The OP]

8 hours ago, jam20 said:

What makes you think that?

Glad Brendon is getting out 

The documentary was extremely partial and manipulative. They presented no evidence whatsoever of a frame job. The evidence against -

• Avery was the last one to see her alive
• Avery harassed her and masked his number when contacting her
• Her vehicle was on his property
• Her vehicle was found by a volunteer who the documentary seems to lead you to believe was in on the conspiracy against Avery
• The cops who initially investigated had no prior relationship with Steven Avery, but would've seemingly required to move Teresa's vehicle and steal a vial of blood and drop the blood in a way that appeared to be from an active cut as soon as Teresa was reported missing
• The method of extracting the blood from the vial is a commonly used method
• Steven Avery's touch DNA was on the hood of the car
• The police would need the key to Teresa Hallbach's car in order to plant it - did they get this from the killer, or did they kill her?
• Teresa Halbach's DNA was on the bullet which was found - how did they have her DNA? - again, is the conclusion that the cops killed her?
• Teresa Halbach's bones were on his property - was it the cops or the real killer who took the major risk of sneaking onto his property and put the bones in his fire pit?
• Did the real killer/framer know he had been burning stuff that day and in order to mix the bones up with the burned tyres?
• How did the real killer/framer manage to avoid leaving their own DNA on Teresa's remains or Avery's property at any point?
• How did the real killer/framer know that Steven Avery was going to use bleach to clean his garage on the night Teresa Hallbach went missing?
• Why did the framer remove the RAV 4's plates and battery and cover the car if they wanted it to be found?
• Why did the framer burn the body almost completely if they wanted the parts to be identified?
• How did the framer/real killer manage to burn the body to the exact extent that left enough muscle tissue for the part to be identified?
• Is it not very risky to be planting bones in a fire pit on the property where your framee lives, where he rarely leaves and where he keeps dogs?
• Did the framer know Avery had fucking leg irons for some kinky fun time when they were planting ideas in Brendan's head?
• Did the framer know what calibre Avery's gun was and shoot Teresa with the same calibre of weapon?
• If it's the police who killed Teresa because they were concerned about Avery's compensation claim why not kill him or kill one of his family members and frame him for that - why wait until he phones a pizza or auto express? Did they constantly monitor his visitors?

The notion the police killed her, or someone else killed her in a seriously tight time frame and framed Avery, fully in the knowledge the police would help is very fantastic. It's not impossible but I'm convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that he did it and there is no evidence of a framejob at all. Evidence of motive is not evidence of the act. 

I also still think it highly probable Brendan Dassey had some involvement, although his conviction should've been overturned because of the way he was dealt with and because it's unclear what his involvement was. I thought it interesting that he seemed far less suggestible in his own trial. I also thought the testimony of the young female relative bore all the hallmarks of someone who has been persuaded/forced to recant their evidence. 

 

 

[19QOS19]

No evidence of a frame job? What about the Police's inability to find the car keys after turning a room upside down (almost literally, looking at the photos) until they miraculously appeared after one cop (who was left red faced with the previous acquittal of Avery) went in. And somehow nicely on the floor. Amazing that 4 days worth of searching couldn't find that.