Minimum Unit Alcohol Price Illegal, says European Court of Justice

[Mr Bairn]

Minimum pricing is an authoritarian policy. It should not be for the government to force people to regulate what they consume

[Granny Danger]

Minimum pricing is an authoritarian policy. It should not be for the government to force people to regulate what they consume

"There is no such thing as society..." type post.

[Mr Bairn]

If someone wants to get pissed on a tenner with no regard for their own health then I don't think the SNP should be stopping them tbh.

I don't really agree that Scotland has a problem with alcohol. Getting pissed and going out is fun

[Baxter Parp]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-35160396

This will now be referred back to the Scottish courts but it looks to be a victory for the Scotch Whisky Association.

Best change the title since it doesn't say it's illegal at all.

[Mortar Bored]

I baulk at the idea of taxation as a preventative measure to a societal problem such as alcohol abuse / misuse.

I'd be more comfortable if the government somehow managed to ring-fence the extra taxation on the lower priced brands and used that for awareness, education and at least attempting to address the issues we have with alcohol.

[strichener]

I baulk at the idea of taxation as a preventative measure to a societal problem such as alcohol abuse / misuse.

I'd be more comfortable if the government somehow managed to ring-fence the extra taxation on the lower priced brands and used that for awareness, education and at least attempting to address the issues we have with alcohol.

Ignoring the fact that minimum pricing is not taxation, do you equally baulk at taxation to fund other societal problems such as homelessness?

[strichener]

If someone wants to get pissed on a tenner with no regard for their own health then I don't think the SNP should be stopping them tbh. I don't really agree that Scotland has a problem with alcohol. Getting pissed and going out is fun

If they want to do so on a desert island then fine, the issue is that alcohol does not only affect the person consuming it. Your last two sentences show how stupid you can be at times. To equate excessive drinking with fun is exactly why Scotland has an alcohol problem.

[Mortar Bored]

Ignoring the fact that minimum pricing is not taxation, do you equally baulk at taxation to fund other societal problems such as homelessness?

I'll address your second point first. I'm entirely in favour of higher taxation on a general level to assist with societal problems, however I don't believe that a direct taxation on a certain product will reduce drastically the use of that product and therefore reduce the damage that does, I'll cite fuel & tobacco as this type of product.

As for your first point, I'm going to hold my hands up and say I'm completely wrong, my understanding was that the unit price would be raised by a taxation directly on the unit. Having not lived in the UK for a few years I'm not completely au fait with the proposed legislation. I now see my error as any brand falling within the scope would immediately raise the wholesale price in order to keep the difference.

ETA- your example of homelessness was a bad example and a fairly low blow IMO, I qualified my initial sentence by specifying alcohol abuse / misuse. It's as if you are suggesting a taxation on sleeping bags would cut down on homelessness, which you know wasn't my point.

[strichener]

I'll address your second point first. I'm entirely in favour of higher taxation on a general level to assist with societal problems, however I don't believe that a direct taxation on a certain product will reduce drastically the use of that product and therefore reduce the damage that does, I'll cite fuel & tobacco as this type of product.

As for your first point, I'm going to hold my hands up and say I'm completely wrong, my understanding was that the unit price would be raised by a taxation directly on the unit. Having not lived in the UK for a few years I'm not completely au fait with the proposed legislation. I now see my error as any brand falling within the scope would immediately raise the wholesale price in order to keep the difference.

ETA- your example of homelessness was a bad example and a fairly low blow IMO, I qualified my initial sentence by specifying alcohol abuse / misuse. It's as if you are suggesting a taxation on sleeping bags would cut down on homelessness, which you know wasn't my point.

You didn't qualify it by specifying alcohol abuse / misuse, you used these as an example of a societal problem. I used homelessness in the same context.

There is evidence to show that taxation has a impact in reducing consumption. According to WHO, increasing tax by 10% reduces consumption by 4%.

[ICTChris]

Best change the title since it doesn't say it's illegal at all.

Nah.

[Mortar Bored]

You didn't qualify it by specifying alcohol abuse / misuse, you used these as an example of a societal problem. I used homelessness in the same context.

There is evidence to show that taxation has a impact in reducing consumption. According to WHO, increasing tax by 10% reduces consumption by 4%.

You're a total pedant, and you know you are. We are discussing alcohol, I used the term "such as" , I'd agree with your point if I had used parking illegally as an example, I didn't - I used the topic title.

Now, please can you link me to the WHO stats that say extra taxation reduces consumption? And more specifically which products it relates to? Also add in what regions in the world this applies to.

For example- a 10% increase on insulin prices in Burundi would result in a more than 4% reduction in consumption.

I'm sure you were referring only to alcohol, tobacco or fuel tho.

[strichener]

You're a total pedant, and you know you are. We are discussing alcohol, I used the term "such as" , I'd agree with your point if I had used parking illegally as an example, I didn't - I used the topic title.

Now, please can you link me to the WHO stats that say extra taxation reduces consumption? And more specifically which products it relates to? Also add in what regions in the world this applies to.

For example- a 10% increase on insulin prices in Burundi would result in a more than 4% reduction in consumption.

I'm sure you were referring only to alcohol, tobacco or fuel tho.

Link: http://www.who.int/tobacco/economics/taxation/en/

[AyrExile]

As a nation how can we have the skills to thrive and prosper in an independent country when the government doesn't credit us with being able to cope with strong alcoholic drink.

[Antiochas III]

Question, Is our consumption not around the middle of the road compared to many of our European Cousins?

[itzdrk]

Pretty pleased about this.

[Mortar Bored]

Strichner, I've read the article provided, and I don't agree that it is proof that increased prices reduce consumption.

I think that the people we are attempting to rescue from alcohol hell, are the type of people that will go to any lengths to meet their needs, much like drugs. Your article provides no

evidence that among the dependant community, they will reduce consumption. All it demonstrates is that, tight fisted, middle class, non alcohol dependent citizens will reduce their intake due to cost.

We need to address the need for alcohol, the culture behind teenage drinking in Scotland, the dependence on alcohol as a crutch.

I know that the unofficial tax on drugs is over 10000% ( for coke) but I was still willing to pay it. Putting a bottle of cider up by £1.50 will not deter an alcoholic- they will switch to Buckie, which will be unaffected.

[Mr Rational]

Ah fuckitall. Keep drinking Scotland, it keeps me in a job.

[ScotSquid]

For this to work it would have to raise the minimum price by a huge amount.

I don't think the local jaiks are going to be put off by Frosty Jacks going up s pound.

[Granny Danger]

Ah fuckitall. Keep drinking Scotland, it keeps me in a job.

^^^^ does deals for livers on the black market.

[strichener]

Strichner, I've read the article provided, and I don't agree that it is proof that increased prices reduce consumption.

I think that the people we are attempting to rescue from alcohol hell, are the type of people that will go to any lengths to meet their needs, much like drugs. Your article provides no

evidence that among the dependant community, they will reduce consumption. All it demonstrates is that, tight fisted, middle class, non alcohol dependent citizens will reduce their intake due to cost.

We need to address the need for alcohol, the culture behind teenage drinking in Scotland, the dependence on alcohol as a crutch.

I know that the unofficial tax on drugs is over 10000% ( for coke) but I was still willing to pay it. Putting a bottle of cider up by £1.50 will not deter an alcoholic- they will switch to Buckie, which will be unaffected.

I am on my phone just now but go and look at the historical graph of taxation v consumption relating to Tobacco in South Africa. The correlation would suggest that you are wide of the mark.