Mr Bairn

League reconstruction: Let's hear your view

431 posts in this topic

6 hours ago, Wilkinson1998 said:

One being that for the system to make sense (in the middle 8 at least) the leagues would need to reset all points to 0 as opposed to the current premiership split where points gained pre split still count towards the total points tally for the season.


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Similarly to the above point a third tier of 18 would mean teams play each other less resulting in less stale fixtures and higher attendances potentially.

Resetting everyone to 0pts makes massive swathes of the opening 22 games literally meaningless...

As you as you knew you were Top 8 or Bottom 4, or Top 4 or Bottom 8, you don't mind whether you win 9-0 or lose 9-0 each week. Clubs like Celtic, Aberdeen, Hearts, Rangers and so on / smaller Championship clubs would know from the off there was no danger of them finishing Bottom 4 / Top 4 and would hardly bother until February. Your example of a club only needing to hit good form for 2-3 months to win the league is exactly why it wouldn't be adopted, anyway.


Also there is little evidence big leagues playing twice result in "less stale fixtures" and "higher attendances" - meaningless mid-table games can be very stale and deliver poor crowds.

Edited by HibeeJibee
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2 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

Resetting everyone to 0pts makes massive swathes of the opening 22 games literally meaningless...

As you as you knew you were Top 8 or Bottom 4, or Top 4 or Bottom 8, you don't mind whether you win 9-0 or lose 9-0 each week. Clubs like Celtic, Aberdeen, Hearts, Rangers and so on / smaller Championship clubs would know from the off there was no danger of them finishing Bottom 4 / Top 4 and would hardly bother until February. Your example of a club only needing to hit good form for 2-3 months to win the league is exactly why it wouldn't be adopted, anyway.


Also there is little evidence big leagues playing twice result in "less stale fixtures" and "higher attendances" - meaningless mid-table games can be very stale and deliver poor crowds.

I know this is a bit mental as far as play-offs go, but these issues can be solved.

Say for example, in the middle eight, the teams finishing 9th, 10th, 11th and 12th in the Premiership start with 12, 10, 8 and 6 points respectively.  The teams finishing 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th in the Championship starting with 4,3,2 and 1 points.  This gives the bottom teams in the Premiership and the top of the Championship something to play for in the first 22.  

In terms of the top of the bottom eight and the bottom of the top eight, have them play-off against the teams who finish 4th and 5th in the middle eight respectively for a position in the following seasons Premiership.

There are of course flaws with this.  It could mean the team who finish 8th after 22 games are the only team relegated and the team who finish 5th in the Championship are the only team promoted.  It would however solve the imbalance of the split and give teams more to play for throughout the entire season.

Is this too mental?

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Surely it isn't just me that thinks there is absolutely no fucking need to over complicate our league? Sack the splits and ram yer points resetting up your you know where. 

Three leagues. One down, one up and playoffs for each league. It isn't difficult. It isn't ground breaking either but does it need to be? Meaningless games? Come on. I would hazard a guess that every other league in the world has meaningless games when it comes to the business end of the season. Why are we so special that we just simply cannot stand for that? 

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1 hour ago, Toma_BullyWee said:

Surely it isn't just me that thinks there is absolutely no fucking need to over complicate our league? Sack the splits and ram yer points resetting up your you know where. 

Three leagues. One down, one up and playoffs for each league. It isn't difficult. It isn't ground breaking either but does it need to be? Meaningless games? Come on. I would hazard a guess that every other league in the world has meaningless games when it comes to the business end of the season. Why are we so special that we just simply cannot stand for that? 

I agree that there should be 3 SPFL leagues but how do you divide 42 clubs?

 

Obviously there's 3x14 but then you play either 26 (too few), 52 (too many) or 39 (with an inherently unfair split of H&A) league games.

So beyond that, other options leave you looking at leagues with splits or other adaptive ways to try and appease the needs of the clubs, with the bigger clubs priorities at the forefront.

 

That's why there's endless discussion of this and why it draws such hot debate. While I strongly, strongly disagree with many of the suggestions made by some, at least they think about it. The worst are those who say it's a simple solution.

 

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I think the current 12 team system works pretty well. The only other system would be to reduce the Premiership to 10 teams and play x4 like the rest of the SPFL divisions, but I can't see that happening. I think the while "fans are bored with playing the same clubs" is a red herring. I don't really care who we're playing, just want the 3 points (as rare as that is...) Small divisions keep things tighter whereas 18 or 20 tab divisions become stale mid-season once top and bottom are pretty much decided.

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Resetting everyone to 0pts makes massive swathes of the opening 22 games literally meaningless...

As you as you knew you were Top 8 or Bottom 4, or Top 4 or Bottom 8, you don't mind whether you win 9-0 or lose 9-0 each week. Clubs like Celtic, Aberdeen, Hearts, Rangers and so on / smaller Championship clubs would know from the off there was no danger of them finishing Bottom 4 / Top 4 and would hardly bother until February. Your example of a club only needing to hit good form for 2-3 months to win the league is exactly why it wouldn't be adopted, anyway.


Also there is little evidence big leagues playing twice result in "less stale fixtures" and "higher attendances" - meaningless mid-table games can be very stale and deliver poor crowds.



I don't think resetting points to 0 would be the ideal solution for Scottish football, but I also don't think the middle 8 would work without resetting points, I was just looking at it and seen the positive of less OF dominance within that system. Aren't there a few leagues around the world that have their normal season then a "play-offs" to decide the league winner?

"Less stale fixtures" was maybe the wrong term and I completely worded that part wrong I think. I was more aiming towards the playing teams 4 times a season (or more including cups). I go to most games usually (missed a few this season tbf) but I'd imagine if I had to pick and choose my games I'd be more likely to attend if it was a case of only playing the team away once and having a more variety of teams.
As it stands just now if I were to look at say Livi away at the start of the season I could decide just to sack it as we would be playing them away later in the season anyway whereas if we play them away only once a season I would be more inclined to bite the bullet and go.
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I think the current 12 team system works pretty well. The only other system would be to reduce the Premiership to 10 teams and play x4 like the rest of the SPFL divisions, but I can't see that happening. I think the while "fans are bored with playing the same clubs" is a red herring. I don't really care who we're playing, just want the 3 points (as rare as that is...) Small divisions keep things tighter whereas 18 or 20 tab divisions become stale mid-season once top and bottom are pretty much decided.


I wouldn't say the 12 team system is the worst system but I think looking below it their needs to be a change from the three 10 team leagues at least. I'm not saying I don't like the 10 team league (further up the thread I spoke about a 16-16-10 setup) I just don't think the three 10s in a row are working very well atm.
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The solution to avoiding "resetting" points is to half the points totals from the teams from the lower division. At this stage (albeit after 24 games played) the middle eight woulds be:

Hibs 24.5 (rounding up/down needed)
Well 24
Partick 23
United 21.5
Hamilton 21
Falkirk 20
Morton 20
ICT 18

There are obvious flaws in this though. 22 games is awfully early to be splitting the league imo and the bottom 8 in the championship would be boring as f*ck if you just missed out on the play offs and we're safe from relegation. Teams in 7th/8th in the top 8 wouldn't have much to play for unless you had some kind of Europa playoff, but that would mean you'd need to play the Scottish Cup final beforehand to know how many spots were up for grabs.

I prefer the current top tier system tbh. 5 games is probably the right amount for post-split and just about every team has something to play for for most of the season. The Premiership playoffs could probably use a revamp though.

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I would have a 12-12-12-12 set-up with every league having 38 games, and the new 6 teams in the league will be the top 3 from the HL and the LL

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I think the while "fans are bored with playing the same clubs" is a red herring.

 

I speak for myself here, but there have been a number of times where I've been weighing up 'going to the fitba' vs 'other sh*t that actually needs done' and the latter has won, often with "ach, I was there earlier this season / will get another trip there later" being a deciding factor. Having just one chance to visit particular grounds genuinely makes a difference for me now.

 

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