Jump to content
Mr Bairn

League reconstruction: Let's hear your view

Recommended Posts

For me I'd go to two 16's, then regional

Scottish Premiership

Top 16 team, simple 30 game home and away. Bottom 2 automatically relegated and 14th goes into a playoff with 3rd-5th from the Championship. The playoff will take the form of an English style 2-leg semi final (3rd v 4th, 14th v 5th) and then a one off playoff final.

Scottish Championship

Again, simple 30 game league with the top 2 going up and 3rd-5th to the playoffs. The bottom 3 will be automatically relegated, with the team finishing 13th going into a 4 team playoff which will also take the form of 2-legged semi finals and a one-off final.

Regional pyramid

There will be a 3-tiered regional pyramid, North, East and West. The North will consist of Northern teams currently in league 2 as well teams from the highland league and the SJFA North region, around 60 teams altogether. The East will consist of Eastern teams currently in league 2 as well is Eastern teams from the Lowland league, the East of Scotland league and the SJFA East region, around 85 teams altogether. The West will consist of Western teams currently in league 2 and the lowland league as well as the South of Scotland league and the SJFA West region, around 90 teams altogether. Each region will have a premier league of 14 teams, with the champions being promoted to the Scottish Championship and the second placed teams going into a 4-team playoff involving 13th in the Scottish championship. The top tier of the regional pyramid will be treated as a single rung of 42 teams, such that teams may be moved between regions on a season-by-season basis if, for example, three teams from the North are relegated from the championship.

Cup competitions

1. Scottish cup

64 team competition. The 32 clubs playing in national leagues will enter at the first round proper, which will be played in January. During the first half of the season, clubs in the regional period will take part in a qualifying competition.

2. League cup

32 team competition for teams in the national league, played in the first half of the season. The first round will take form of 8x4 group stage playing home and away, followed by a straight knockout tournament.

3. Scottish Junior cup

Straight knockout tournament for teams in the regional pyramid

4. Regional league cups

Each region in the pyramid will organise a cup competition

Season structure

July

W4: League cup game 1

M4: European Date

August

W1: League cup game 2

M1: European Date

W2: League cup game 3

M2: League cup game 4

W3: League cup game 5

M3: European Date

W4: League Cup game 6

M4: European Date

W5: SPFL matchday 1

M5: International Date

September

W1: International Date

M1: International Date

W2: SPFL matchday 2

M2: European Date

W3: SPFL matchday 3

M3: League cup R16

W4: SPFL matchday 4

M4: European Date

October

W1: SPFL matchday 5

M1: International Date

W2: International Date

M2: International Date

W3: SPFL matchday 6

M3: European Date

W4: SPFL matchday 7

M4: League cup QF

November

W1: SPFL matchday 8

M1: European Date

W2: SPFL matchday 9

M2: International Date

W3: International Date

M3: International Date

W4: SPFL matchday 10

M4: European Date

W5: League cup SF

M5:

December

W1: SPFL matchday 11

M1:

W2: SPFL matchday 12

M2: European Date

W3: League cup Final

M3: SPFL matchday 13

W4: SPFL matchday 14

M4: SPFL matchday 15

January

W1: SPFL matchday 16

M1: SPFL matchday 17

W2: Scottish cup R64

M2:

W3: SPFL matchday 18

M3:

W4: SPFL matchday 19

M4:

W5: Scottish cup R32

M5: SPFL matchday 20

February

W1: SPFL matchday 21

M1:

W2: SPFL matchday 22

M2: European Date

W3: Scottish Cup R16

M3: European Date

W4: SPFL matchday 23

M4: SPFL matchday 24

March

W1: SPFL matchday 25

M1: European Date

W2: Scottish cup QF

M2: European Date

W3: SPFL matchday 26

M3: International Date

W4: International Date

M4: International Date

April

W1: SPFL matchday 27

M1: European Date

W2: SPFL matchday 28

M2: European Date

W3: SPFL matchday 29 & Scottish Cup semis

M3: League games for teams involved in Scottish cup semis

W4: SPFL matchday 30

M4: European Date

May

W1:

M1: European Date; Playoffs First Leg

W2: Playoffs Second Leg

M2:

W3: Playoff Finals

M3:

W4: Scottish Cup Final

M4:

W5: Scottish Cup Final

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that merging League 2 with regionals won't work, it just won't get enough support to pass. Other than that, I fully support ideas here. 16-16-10. Also make the league cup group stage bigger, to account for extra 10 teams.

Make league cup group stage more about derbies, regional rivals in each group.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

f**k regionalisation. A sure way to help kill the game for many.

Also plenty of regions already have a regional cup. Why you think it would somehow become meaningful just because it was rebranded is a mystery.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

f**k not doing anything. Its shite as it is. How will it kill the game for teams who get crowds of 200-300 as it is? The current set up has long run its course. By the time the clocks go back youve already played all the teams in youre league and you still have to repeat this another 3 times

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

f**k not doing anything. Its shite as it is. How will it kill the game for teams who get crowds of 200-300 as it is? The current set up has long run its course. By the time the clocks go back youve already played all the teams in youre league and you still have to repeat this another 3 times

Yes, because it absolutely has to be regionalisation or nothing. That is clearly what I said.

Also is the game not for all clubs? Or is there a cut off point whereby teams who average under a certain amount of fans at their games are just disregarded.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, because it absolutely has to be regionalisation or nothing. That is clearly what I said.

Also is the game not for all clubs? Or is there a cut off point whereby teams who average under a certain amount of fans at their games are just disregarded.

You could make the case that they are being looked after rather than disregarded.

If you look at the much highlighted Annan vs Elgin game how much is it costing the clubs to travel to this away game twice a season? They could probably pay someones wages for 5 or 6 weeks with the cost of the bus alone!

The premises is that for the clubs you reduce costs, that can be re-invested in the squad, hopefully crowds increase as the travelling distance is reduced you hopefully gain more away fans.

But that needs to be balanced against reduced (perceived) quality of teams, potential loss of advertising if there isn't the nationwide exposure (although what exposure the sponsors get in league 2 is debatable) and the notion that your team might not be the same level as it was before (although in reality you would be moving from Level 4 to level 3) and you also have to put up with the Juniors and their local leagues for local people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Having 4 national divs of 10 and 12 isnt helping. Especialy as in its current guise a pyramid is totaly unattactive to non league and junior teams as theyd be swapping one pish league for another , more expensive 1. Remember there are more than 42 clubs in scotland. We need a set up thats in EVERYONES best interest and that of the game overall rather than protecting unambitious diddy teams who have been hovering close to the foot of league 2 season after season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is actually the type of set-up that I think would really allow regionalisation to flourish. Although I don't think you could do it in the all encompassing way described in the OP. Some Junior clubs simply prefer their leagues and their set-up, I have no problem with them staying in it. But what we need is an actual incentive for clubs to want to join a regional set-up. At the moment we have no real carrot at all. Last season, for example, saw Brora's reluctance to give up their local football for two trips to Annan, etc. It's no incentive to clubs who might want to be involved. If you had North and South Premier Leagues with the winners going into the second tier and the runners up going into a play-off, for example, then real incentive is there. A second tier with clubs like Morton, Ayr, Raith, Dunfermline, etc., and a League Cup group with 2 Premier League clubs in it - what current non-league team with even an ounce of ambition to play beyond their local set-up wouldn't want to be part of that?

The obvious losers in such a system would be the smaller clubs who enjoy their national status, but I think having proper competitive North and South Leagues would help that to an extent. And a knockout Challenge Cup between the North and South Premier Leagues would also ensure that they still felt part of a national set-up. The other problem is facilities, and the essential thing here would be some form of funding (probably government) for floodlights and all-weather pitches (which are of great benefit to local communities anyway) - but who knows how possible that would be.

If we want some type of real pyramid, then it needs to be done in that way. Otherwise there simply isn't the incentive to clubs to want to be part of it (and wanting clubs to be part of it is the most important thing).

(btw, this is completely aside from the merits or negatives of the 16/16 set-up outlined above, of which I have many reservations).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think there's any system that will tick all the boxes, but Mr Bairn's is a decent suggestion. I'd love to see regionalisation at the third or fourth tiers, and I think three regions works much better than two.

I think the biggest problem would be the big gap in quality and money between tier 1 and tier 2.

Edited by bendan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think there's any system that will tick all the boxes, but Mr Bairn's is a decent suggestion. I'd love to see regionalisation at the third or fourth tiers, and I think three regions works much better than two.

I think the biggest problem would be the big gap in quality and money between tier 1 and tier 2.

you may find for the first few seasons that the same teams go up and down every other year tho that will evolve over time as big teams always have a rotten season now and again and smaller teams currently in spfl 1 will get bigger away supports.

The other issue is having 3 way promotion and relegation from a national level, but then again a north south split would also be murder to impliment as to keep the 2 regions roughy equal in stregnth even it would have to be the central belt and the borders vs rest of scotland, which kinda defeats the whole purpose of regionalising.

still i think its worth doing, so its worth making the effort to make it fit

as someone pointed out on another thread we are now one of only a handfull of uefa members that still has different independant league competitions rather than a fully integrated pyramid. needs to change cause we are getting pretty gash for a traditional footballing nation of 5 million

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

you may find for the first few seasons that the same teams go up and down every other year tho that will evolve over time as big teams always have a rotten season now and again and smaller teams currently in spfl 1 will get bigger away supports.

The other issue is having 3 way promotion and relegation from a national level, but then again a north south split would also be murder to impliment as to keep the 2 regions roughy equal in stregnth even it would have to be the central belt and the borders vs rest of scotland, which kinda defeats the whole purpose of regionalising.

still i think its worth doing, so its worth making the effort to make it fit

as someone pointed out on another thread we are now one of only a handfull of uefa members that still has different independant league competitions rather than a fully integrated pyramid. needs to change cause we are getting pretty gash for a traditional footballing nation of 5 million

But then similarly England's first regionalisation is north/south and there's works OK. They also have a much bigger country meaning that the teams are travelling much farther.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But then similarly England's first regionalisation is north/south and there's works OK. They also have a much bigger country meaning that the teams are travelling much farther.

England is bigger, but it's not much bigger.

ETA: It's a third longer, so it could be described as "much bigger". :lol:

Edited by Jacksgranda

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aye but they have a much bigger population and much more money . Not to mention big densly populated areas in the north like greater manchester and tyne&wier . We have large parts of the country with very low population and poor road networks. North of dundee there are a grand total of 9 league clubs ATM. So there are issues with it that need to be overcome

Anyway i support the ops plan it just needs carefully thought out and by someone a bit smarter than me

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aye but they have a much bigger population and much more money . Not to mention big densly populated areas in the north like greater manchester and tyne&wier . We have large parts of the country with very low population and poor road networks. North of dundee there are a grand total of 9 league clubs ATM. So there are issues with it that need to be overcome

Anyway i support the ops plan it just needs carefully thought out and by someone a bit smarter than me

Yes but that's why just now the hypothetical border is the river Tay. Which if I'm correct is roughly the same as the juniors border between there northern and East/West leagues. At the start the Highland league is dominated by teams in the far north but eventually with promotion/relegation it could be more evenly split.

This is a post I put on another thread of something along the lines I would like to see our game go:

I think if the pyramid expands it will do better for Scottish football but I also think to make the pyramid a lucrative offer we need to reconstruct our national leagues. Bigger top flight and only two or three national leagues before regional leagues.

I'd have something like this:

Premiership: (16)

Celtic

Aberdeen

Hearts

Dundee United

Dundee

Hamilton

Ict

Ross County

Partick Thistle

Kilmarnock

Motherwell

St Johnstone

Rangers

Hibs

Falkirk

Raith

Division 1 (16)

Morton

St Mirren

Queens

Livi

Dumbarton

Alloa

Ayr

Dunfermline

Stenhousemuir

Albion Rovers

Airdrie

Peterhead

Forfar

Stranraer

Brechin

Div 2 (10)

Arbroath

Annan

Montrose

Elgin

Stirling

East Stirlingshire

Berwick

Clyde

Queens Park

East Fife

Then Highland/Lowland league

After this I don't know enough about Highland football but lowland could then go East/West and follow a structure similar to the juniors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i get that, not sure why you want to keep a div of 10 tho? unless for a couple of seasons till things get settled, i do support the idea, just that it comes with unique challanges, the very idea of regional football is that small teams with small support, small budgets and who rely on part time players dont have to spend several hours on the road just to play another small skint poorly supported part time club. it doesnt relay matter where you draw the boundry, the population make up of scotland means that one area (the highlands ) is going to be fucking massive OR one area is going to be as week as piss

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i get that, not sure why you want to keep a div of 10 tho? unless for a couple of seasons till things get settled, i do support the idea, just that it comes with unique challanges, the very idea of regional football is that small teams with small support, small budgets and who rely on part time players dont have to spend several hours on the road just to play another small skint poorly supported part time club. it doesnt relay matter where you draw the boundry, the population make up of scotland means that one area (the highlands ) is going to be fucking massive OR one area is going to be as week as piss

Yeah I understand where you're coming from but I don't think going straight from national to a 3-way split would be any better either. For the East and west divisions jumping straight into a national league would significantly increase there journey time.

The 10 team league was based more as a last chance for national clubs and a testing the water for newly promoted ones. A few wins in a ten team league can take you from last to mid table. When I came up with that set up I tried to combat the most complained aspects of our game ( too small a top tier, too many national leagues, a half arsed pyramid).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the OP's idea is that jumping from regional to national has to add something. Playing full time teams like Dunfermline, St Mirren :-( and Ayr would be a step up and with their travelling support there would be some financial support to going national. Why go national just so you can play Berwick, Elgin and Annan?

Any 'north' region will have to be big, but at least an east-west split of the rest provides more realistic balance given the population numbers. Most people live in the central belt. The current situation where the Highland League is half of tier five won't work if the juniors come on board.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×